School Employee on Trip.

[RoyGBiv]

Not legal advice, just my opinion.

A "school sponsored activity" does not have to include children.
What you describe is, IMO, a "school sponsored activity".

also... PC seems clear about school vehicles.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
........
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

Emphasis mine.

School sponsored activity is irrelevant to this discussion. As Charles has outlined in one of the earlier TFC podcasts, including the written authorization phrase in the statute limits the scope of "school sponsored activities" to only those grounds that are part of the school campus or property. A principle can't authorize the carrying of a handgun on property that the school doesn't own or control. Otherwise, you'd have to leave McDonald's when the high school football team shows up if you are carrying.

To address the OP's initial question - refer to school/district policy. If they allow concealed carry in district vehicles or while on district business, then you'd be ok to carry. If policy forbids it, you could be disciplined or fired for carrying. But you wouldn't run afoul of state law.

Subtle much?

If you volunteer to be a parent supervisor on a class field trip, are you allowed to carry?
No.

Why?
Because it's a school sponsored event and you are a participant.

In this case the OP is similarly making a trip that is sponsored by the school. Just because there are not any kids coming along doesn't mean it's not a school sponsored activity. And... in addition.... school vehicles are EXPRESSLY noted in 46.03. You're welcome to believe otherwise. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice, just my opinion. Worth even less than you paid for it.

Being a participant in a school sponsored activity does not prohibit carry in and of itself. If you volunteer to chaperon a field trip and drive yourself to the field trip location, you wouldn't be prohibited from carrying. Again, it has to do with what authority the school administrators have/don't have with respect to property that is not owned or leased by the school district.

Here's how Charles explains this point much better than I can:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82361&p=1052074&hil ... l#p1052074

I think your link was incomplete (got truncated somehow)... Is this it?
http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=83940

I don't see where Charles posted in that thread, maybe you intended this one? it was linked in that first thread.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82361&p=1052074&hil ... l#p1052074

I believe (don't want to put words in Chas mouth) that what he was addressing in that second link was a situation where I am at the FTW zoo with my gun and a class trip comes in. I am NOT part of the trip in any way. I just happen to be there with my own kids enjoying the day. I believe this is VERY different from being a chaperone, whether you take your own car or not.

Looking back at the first link I posted here, the following language from PC 46.03

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted,

The way I read that is that if you KNOWINGLY agree to chaperone a field trip and you INTENTIONALLY show up and participate at that school sponsored activity, regardless of how you were transported there, you have committed a felony. Knowingly and intentionally.

So, yes... being a participant in a school sponsored activity, knowingly and intentionally, DOES prohibit CC.

Again. I am not a lawyer. This is just my opinion, not legal advice.

[Edited for clarity]

[thetexan]

Not legal advice, just my opinion.

A "school sponsored activity" does not have to include children.
What you describe is, IMO, a "school sponsored activity".

also... PC seems clear about school vehicles.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
........
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

Emphasis mine.

School sponsored activity is irrelevant to this discussion. As Charles has outlined in one of the earlier TFC podcasts, including the written authorization phrase in the statute limits the scope of "school sponsored activities" to only those grounds that are part of the school campus or property. A principle can't authorize the carrying of a handgun on property that the school doesn't own or control. Otherwise, you'd have to leave McDonald's when the high school football team shows up if you are carrying.

To address the OP's initial question - refer to school/district policy. If they allow concealed carry in district vehicles or while on district business, then you'd be ok to carry. If policy forbids it, you could be disciplined or fired for carrying. But you wouldn't run afoul of state law.

Unless, of course state law you're forgetting is state statute PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

for which

(g) An offense under this section is a third degree felony. Because you would be operating outside of school regulations or without written authorization.

This presumes the car on a sanctioned business trip is a passenger transportation vehicle by definition. I believe it is in this case. If not then no state foul.

[TexasCajun]

Not legal advice, just my opinion.

A "school sponsored activity" does not have to include children.
What you describe is, IMO, a "school sponsored activity".

also... PC seems clear about school vehicles.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
........
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

Emphasis mine.

School sponsored activity is irrelevant to this discussion. As Charles has outlined in one of the earlier TFC podcasts, including the written authorization phrase in the statute limits the scope of "school sponsored activities" to only those grounds that are part of the school campus or property. A principle can't authorize the carrying of a handgun on property that the school doesn't own or control. Otherwise, you'd have to leave McDonald's when the high school football team shows up if you are carrying.

To address the OP's initial question - refer to school/district policy. If they allow concealed carry in district vehicles or while on district business, then you'd be ok to carry. If policy forbids it, you could be disciplined or fired for carrying. But you wouldn't run afoul of state law.

Subtle much?

If you volunteer to be a parent supervisor on a class field trip, are you allowed to carry?
No.

Why?
Because it's a school sponsored event and you are a participant.

In this case the OP is similarly making a trip that is sponsored by the school. Just because there are not any kids coming along doesn't mean it's not a school sponsored activity. And... in addition.... school vehicles are EXPRESSLY noted in 46.03. You're welcome to believe otherwise. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice, just my opinion. Worth even less than you paid for it.

Being a participant in a school sponsored activity does not prohibit carry in and of itself. If you volunteer to chaperon a field trip and drive yourself to the field trip location, you wouldn't be prohibited from carrying. Again, it has to do with what authority the school administrators have/don't have with respect to property that is not owned or leased by the school district.

Here's how Charles explains this point much better than I can:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82361&p=1052074&hil ... l#p1052074

I think your link was incomplete (got truncated somehow)... Is this it?
http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=83940

I don't see where Charles posted in that thread, maybe you intended this one? it was linked in that first thread.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82361&p=1052074&hil ... l#p1052074

I believe (don't want to put words in Chas mouth) that what he was addressing in that second link was a situation where I am at the FTW zoo with my gun and a class trip comes in. I am NOT part of the trip in any way. I just happen to be there with my own kids enjoying the day. I believe this is VERY different from being a chaperone, whether you take your own car or not.

Looking back at the first link I posted here, the following language from PC 46.03

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted,

The way I read that is that if you KNOWINGLY agree to chaperone a field trip and you INTENTIONALLY show up and participate at that school sponsored activity, regardless of how you were transported there, you have committed a felony. Knowingly and intentionally.

So, yes... being a participant in a school sponsored activity, knowingly and intentionally, DOES prohibit CC.

Again. I am not a lawyer. This is just my opinion, not legal advice.

[Edited for clarity]

Sorry about the link. I copied it from another post I happened to be looking at. This is the correct & complete link:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=82361&p=1052074&hil ... l#p1052074

Here, Charles is applying the AG's opinion regarding the offices utilized by the courts to an activity sponsored by a school. Again, the issue is whether or not a school administrator can allow concealed carry on property that the school does not own or lease. Being a part of the activity isn't listed as a prohibition to carry, the prohibition is limited to the premises.

[casp625]

So you're saying the school does not own or lease the school vehicle and thus cannot prohibit carrying in a school vehicle?

[TexasCajun]

So you're saying the school does not own or lease the school vehicle and thus cannot prohibit carrying in a school vehicle?

No. I'm addressing whether or not being a part of the school activity prohibits a person from carrying.

[casp625]

So you're saying the school does not own or lease the school vehicle and thus cannot prohibit carrying in a school vehicle?

No. I'm addressing whether or not being a part of the school activity prohibits a person from carrying.

So you're saying a school teacher could legally carry on a school field trip at, say a museum, because the school doesn't control the museum property?

[TexasCajun]

So you're saying the school does not own or lease the school vehicle and thus cannot prohibit carrying in a school vehicle?

No. I'm addressing whether or not being a part of the school activity prohibits a person from carrying.

So you're saying a school teacher could legally carry on a school field trip at, say a museum, because the school doesn't control the museum property?

Essentially, yes. Legally a teacher could carry on a field trip because the school administrators don't control the property where the field trip is taking place. But the teacher would have to take his/her private vehicle to the field trip location in order to avoid running afoul of the section that prohibits carry on passenger transport vehicles (read buses). And while it wouldn't be a legal issue, the teacher may run into employee-employer issues in doing so. But a parent volunteering would certainly be within their rights to carry as a field-trip chaperon - provided they stay off of the buses.

[twomillenium]

We are starting to get away from original post. (I plead guilty of this at times)

Question. Thoughts and opinions greatly appreciated.

I am a public school employee. This weekend I will be traveling across the state in a school vehicle and staying overnight. I will NOT be with kids. Does the fact that I will be in a school vehicle and the school is paying for my trip have any bearing on me carrying?

Any employer can prohibit an employee from having or storing a firearm in the employers vehicle. Schools can prohibit employees from having firearms in the employee's locked vehicle in school parking lots. If your school employer prohibits such then that is a definite no. The fact that the vehicle is not a bus, presents a IMHO grey area but if the employer (whether or not a school district) says NO to firearms in their vehicles, then the grey area goes away and it is a definite NO. Ask your employer and get any permission in writing.
The volunteer chaperone that takes their own vehicle would have to leave the firearm locked in vehicle, while at the school event because they are a participant. Without permission of school?? That is not likely.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in
Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

[casp625]

So you're saying the school does not own or lease the school vehicle and thus cannot prohibit carrying in a school vehicle?

No. I'm addressing whether or not being a part of the school activity prohibits a person from carrying.

So you're saying a school teacher could legally carry on a school field trip at, say a museum, because the school doesn't control the museum property?

Essentially, yes. Legally a teacher could carry on a field trip because the school administrators don't control the property where the field trip is taking place. But the teacher would have to take his/her private vehicle to the field trip location in order to avoid running afoul of the section that prohibits carry on passenger transport vehicles (read buses). And while it wouldn't be a legal issue, the teacher may run into employee-employer issues in doing so. But a parent volunteering would certainly be within their rights to carry as a field-trip chaperon - provided they stay off of the buses.

Don't think I have ever been on a field trip where teachers were allowed to drive themselves - they were required to ride with the students. That aside, that would be a logistical nightmare. The teacher would have to either A) keep the vehicle parked off school property with a handgun or B) swing by their house and pick up their handgun and then proceed to the event. On the way back, they would have to do the same.

But back to the topic at hand, where exactly are you getting "passenger transport vehicle" is defined as only a bus? If OP is taking a school vehicle to an event, then he is traveling to a school sponsored activity in a "passenger transport vehicle," regardless if it is a coupe, sedan, truck, or bus.

[RoyGBiv]

So you're saying the school does not own or lease the school vehicle and thus cannot prohibit carrying in a school vehicle?

No. I'm addressing whether or not being a part of the school activity prohibits a person from carrying.

So you're saying a school teacher could legally carry on a school field trip at, say a museum, because the school doesn't control the museum property?

Essentially, yes. Legally a teacher could carry on a field trip because the school administrators don't control the property where the field trip is taking place. But the teacher would have to take his/her private vehicle to the field trip location in order to avoid running afoul of the section that prohibits carry on passenger transport vehicles (read buses). And while it wouldn't be a legal issue, the teacher may run into employee-employer issues in doing so. But a parent volunteering would certainly be within their rights to carry as a field-trip chaperon - provided they stay off of the buses.

I think you are incorrect in your interpretation. 46.03 seems VERY clear to me and what Charles said in the linked post does not appear to be applicable to the situation described by the OP.

Being in the same premises by happenstance is VERY different from intentionally, knowingly being there and actively participating in the event.

I'm not going to argue it further. Maybe Charles will be along to clarify.

[thetexan]

The activity issue I don't think is an issue. The vehicle issue is. Even if the driver had the consent or effective consent to carry in the schools vehicle (using the 52.061 rules) the written or regulatory authorization from the institution is expressly required to get around 46.03.

tex