51% Sign Posted, but TABC License calls for Blue Sign

[Jusme]

From conversations I've had with my local rural bar and grill, despite not actually being a 51% establishment, the TABC told them to still post the sign since they applied for an extended license to sell alcohol until 2am. Their grill closes at 9pm. I wish I could remember the conversation now.

They did NOT want to post it, but they also didn't want any trouble from the TABC. Thankfully since our town is so tiny they said they didn't care if people CC inside but they are dubious of outsiders.

They may not want to enforce the TABC regulation, but if they "knowingly" do so they jeopardize their license. Also if a LTC holder is caught carrying there, even concealed, it will be their LTC on the line. They can avoid the issue by keeping their grill open until "last call"

They aren't telling people to do so and if anyone makes the choice to do so regardless of the sign, that's just the chance they take. They won't know either way because concealed is concealed.

I understand that they have not given blanket authority to carry anyway, but as former LEO I have seen a few TABC "permitted premise walk thrus" nobody leaves, they will frisk at will, check ID, run warrant checks and generally make life miserable for a while. Rural, out of the way, small establishments, where everybody knows your name, are their favorite targets. Even cars in the parking lots are fair game for "frisking" since the parking lot is considered part of the permitted premise.
Just a heads up.

[mr1337]

From conversations I've had with my local rural bar and grill, despite not actually being a 51% establishment, the TABC told them to still post the sign since they applied for an extended license to sell alcohol until 2am. Their grill closes at 9pm. I wish I could remember the conversation now.

They did NOT want to post it, but they also didn't want any trouble from the TABC. Thankfully since our town is so tiny they said they didn't care if people CC inside but they are dubious of outsiders.

They may not want to enforce the TABC regulation, but if they "knowingly" do so they jeopardize their license. Also if a LTC holder is caught carrying there, even concealed, it will be their LTC on the line. They can avoid the issue by keeping their grill open until "last call"

They aren't telling people to do so and if anyone makes the choice to do so regardless of the sign, that's just the chance they take. They won't know either way because concealed is concealed.

I understand that they have not given blanket authority to carry anyway, but as former LEO I have seen a few TABC "permitted premise walk thrus" nobody leaves, they will frisk at will, check ID, run warrant checks and generally make life miserable for a while. Rural, out of the way, small establishments, where everybody knows your name, are their favorite targets. Even cars in the parking lots are fair game for "frisking" since the parking lot is considered part of the permitted premise.
Just a heads up.

Illegal without probable cause. Clear 4th Amendment violation. I would bet any charges that come out of it would have to be dropped on Constitutional grounds.

[LosAlce]

I understand that they have not given blanket authority to carry anyway, but as former LEO I have seen a few TABC "permitted premise walk thrus" nobody leaves, they will frisk at will, check ID, run warrant checks and generally make life miserable for a while. Rural, out of the way, small establishments, where everybody knows your name, are their favorite targets. Even cars in the parking lots are fair game for "frisking" since the parking lot is considered part of the permitted premise.
Just a heads up.

Illegal without probable cause. Clear 4th Amendment violation. I would bet any charges that come out of it would have to be dropped on Constitutional grounds.

I agree with mr1337 (nice screen am btw ) but I appreciate your heads up, Jusme. I will absolutely keep it in mind. Much appreciated

[AJSully421]

Reason number 3,000 why all off limits places but courts, jails, and airports need to be exempted for LTC holders... So that junk like 51% signs or blue signs, and all this other junk goes away.

Also, get firearm regulation stripped from the TABC for long guns.

[Lynyrd]

It took from August 10 until this week, that's 4 months, but now a friend just told me they have blue TABC signs in several locations and the 51% sign is gone! I guess the TABC complaint worked, but it sure took a while. Now I will be able to take the wife back in there to eat.

[OldCurlyWolf]

A recommendation: Do report them to TABC (https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforcemen ... cation.asp), but when you complete the form make no mention of your 2A rights or LTC issues. Simply state that the facility has the red 51% sign posted and, based on your search of TABC records, you believe that to be incorrect signage.

OOps, too late. I already filed the report.

Yeah the TABC is not 2A friendly. They don't believe that anyone should have a gun anywhere around alcoholic beverages as if one or the other can cause harm without human intervention. The only place that you cannot carry long guns, in Texas is in a TABC permitted premise, including grocery stores, restaurants etc..

Actually that is not quite correct. The caveat is: You are not breaking the law. The TABC Licensee is breaking TABC regulations if he/she does not remove you and your long arm from the premises. Only if you refuse to leave are you breaking a law. Trespassing.

[Abraham]

Jusme,

Do you know if the TABC was in any way censured for their actions as you described them?

Or, were they fully within compliance of the law and continue with their actions? (with what sounds to me like over the top policing)

[Soccerdad1995]

A recommendation: Do report them to TABC (https://www.tabc.state.tx.us/enforcemen ... cation.asp), but when you complete the form make no mention of your 2A rights or LTC issues. Simply state that the facility has the red 51% sign posted and, based on your search of TABC records, you believe that to be incorrect signage.

OOps, too late. I already filed the report.

Yeah the TABC is not 2A friendly. They don't believe that anyone should have a gun anywhere around alcoholic beverages as if one or the other can cause harm without human intervention. The only place that you cannot carry long guns, in Texas is in a TABC permitted premise, including grocery stores, restaurants etc..

Actually that is not quite correct. The caveat is: You are not breaking the law. The TABC Licensee is breaking TABC regulations if he/she does not remove you and your long arm from the premises. Only if you refuse to leave are you breaking a law. Trespassing.

I wonder how that works if the long arm is concealed. Is the licensee obligated to search all persons and bags to identify things like a Sub 2000 in a woman's purse or a man's computer bag?

[CleverNickname]

I wonder how that works if the long arm is concealed. Is the licensee obligated to search all persons and bags to identify things like a Sub 2000 in a woman's purse or a man's computer bag?

No, the TABC law says "knowingly allowed."

[Lynyrd]

This post stayed idle for 4 months. I brought it back to life with an update to report that another sign had come down, and it was now legal for license holders to carry in another business. But, the comments that have been added since my report are just continuing an argument about the TABC. I guess I was naive to expect that this community would be happy to know that another sign came down, and that the TABC did the right thing.

[warnmar10]

This post stayed idle for 4 months. I brought it back to life with an update to report that another sign had come down, and it was now legal for license holders to carry in another business. But, the comments that have been added since my report are just continuing an argument about the TABC. I guess I was naive to expect that this community would be happy to know that another sign came down, and that the TABC did the right thing.

Christmas is RUINED!

[OldCurlyWolf]

This post stayed idle for 4 months. I brought it back to life with an update to report that another sign had come down, and it was now legal for license holders to carry in another business. But, the comments that have been added since my report are just continuing an argument about the TABC. I guess I was naive to expect that this community would be happy to know that another sign came down, and that the TABC did the right thing.

Still like to see inappropriate signs removed.

[Lynyrd]

This post stayed idle for 4 months. I brought it back to life with an update to report that another sign had come down, and it was now legal for license holders to carry in another business. But, the comments that have been added since my report are just continuing an argument about the TABC. I guess I was naive to expect that this community would be happy to know that another sign came down, and that the TABC did the right thing.

Still like to see inappropriate signs removed.

Just stirring the pot.

[ScottDLS]

This post stayed idle for 4 months. I brought it back to life with an update to report that another sign had come down, and it was now legal for license holders to carry in another business. But, the comments that have been added since my report are just continuing an argument about the TABC. I guess I was naive to expect that this community would be happy to know that another sign came down, and that the TABC did the right thing.

If the sign was supposed to be a BLUE sign (i.e. the license issued for <51%) from the beginning and TABC, said to post a RED, then the removal of the sign is not making, it legal to carry. It was always legal to carry, they just eliminated the sign saying that it was...

[Lynyrd]

If the sign was supposed to be a BLUE sign (i.e. the license issued for <51%) from the beginning and TABC, said to post a RED, then the removal of the sign is not making, it legal to carry. It was always legal to carry, they just eliminated the sign saying that it was...

You are correct. But I wonder if a deputy would give me time to look up the liquor license on the TABC website and show him they were supposed to have a blue sign before they put me in handcuffs? I don't want to be the test case, ain't nobody got time for that. And by the way, I found out they posted the 51% on their own to keep guns out. TABC threatened to fine them if they didn't take it down (due to my complaint). They also are too ignorant to know about 30.06/30.07 as of yet. And I'm sure not going to tell them.