Saw my first iinvalid sign today

[rssecurity]

While these two were civil not criminal cases, I can offer some food for thought. I can't get in to specifics, but I know of two cases.

In one, a foreclosure notice was sent with a return receipt requested. The receipt had the 9 digit zip code. The last 4 digits were wrong. Foreclosee (or post office) did return the receipt, so it got to him/her. The foreclosee then fought and the foreclosure was thrown out due to the zip code error. To us non-lawyers, it was not material and didn't have any effect on the notice, but it was enough for the judge to toss it.

Second case, the forecloser was successfully sued by the person living there because the wrong building number was on the notice. Address was right, and she wasn't even on the deed, yet still won based on that slight error.

While I know of no precedent for 30.06/30.07/51% signs, there are other precedents for minor, insignificant, errors costing people their case. I also consider that in all the years at least 30.06 has been around, there are no precedents. Why not? I have to believe that it has to have come up by now. I can think of two reasons:

1 - The DA's look at these cases, realize they'll likely lose, and don't prosecute, or lose in court.
2 - No LTC who has lost has bothered to appeal. Since it was a class A misdemeanor, which is just below a felony conviction, that seems less likely.

[Liberty]

.

While I know of no precedent for 30.06/30.07/51% signs, there are other precedents for minor, insignificant, errors costing people their case. I also consider that in all the years at least 30.06 has been around, there are no precedents. Why not? I have to believe that it has to have come up by now. I can think of two reasons:

1 - The DA's look at these cases, realize they'll likely lose, and don't prosecute, or lose in court.
2 - No LTC who has lost has bothered to appeal. Since it was a class A misdemeanor, which is just below a felony conviction, that seems less likely.

or maybe ...
3- No one has been caught. It's unlikely that the very few licensed folk would cross a legitimate sign would be caught if their gun were properly concealed.

[rssecurity]

It's unlikely that the very few licensed folk would cross a legitimate sign would be caught if their gun were properly concealed.

The key word is legitimate. I'm referring to signs that don't meet all the requirements of the law. I do agree that us licensed folk would as a group obey said legitimate signs, and 99% of infractions are accidental when they do occur.

For example, look in the comments for Sunny's 3344 Chimney Rock Rd. I posted a picture of their sign. Not valid IMHO because they plastered another sign on top of it, mostly obscuring the English and partially the Spanish. But if they hadn't covered it up, it would be valid.

[Oldgringo]

Call me a chicken if you must, but I'm not interested in paying someone to argue, on my behalf, that the sign was invalid. If the place has an old or otherwise invalidly worded sign, that serves notice that "they" do not want/need my business/presence. I do ignore gun-buster signs....in Texas.

[thetexan]

There is a recurring disagreement on this forum about how careful we should be in avoiding legal behavior. Personally, I obey the law completely, even in areas where I believe the law is unconstitutional, but I will not voluntarily give up my right to carry where it is perfectly legal to do so. I may choose not to patronize a business based on my perception of the owners beliefs toward firearms or anything else, but if I do enter that business, I will be carrying if I can legally do so.

Care is yours to use at your discretion. The various states and perceptions of ambiguity, clarity, "almostness", "identicalness" etc are the purview of the ones who would sit in judgement of you.

I have told several youngsters thinking of getting tattoos on their arms and legs that doing so will have a very meaningful effect on your ability to be hired by many companies. The argument is almost always that why should they bow to the dictates of "the world". It's none of their business. Except, only, it is precisely their business and their prerogative to enforce and inflict their personal business standards (within the law, of course) upon the perspective applicant; a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face! The world really does dictate policy on many levels. We really do play the system's game. And it is certainly so in the legal system.

The law is the law. The interpretation of the law is the interpretation of the law. And the ones who sit in judgement, and the legal system we swim in gets to decide.

The application of care, or wisdom is certainly an individual choice. No arguments there.

tex

[Lynyrd]

Call me a chicken if you must, but I'm not interested in paying someone to argue, on my behalf, that the sign was invalid. If the place has an old or otherwise invalidly worded sign, that serves notice that "they" do not want/need my business/presence. I do ignore gun-buster signs....in Texas.

I ran into a gun buster sign while taking my wife to the doctor last weekend. Our regular GP office was closed, and we went to one of the clinics in our health care group. On the front door was a sign with a red circle drawn around a pistol with a red line through the circle. The text said "No Firearms." There was no other sign of any kind that I could see, and believe me I looked. My wife sort of rolled her eyes at me, and I went back to the truck. We had already had a discussion about this at home and she didn't want me to cause a scene at the doctor's office over their gun policy.

I was CC at the time, and since I wasn't the patient I didn't see how they would ever know. I also knew that there were no criminal penalties for carrying past such a sign, but to appease my better half I disarmed until we got back to the truck.

I've thought a lot about that the last few days, and I'm still not sure what I will do if a similar circumstance happens again. And it probably will with a visit to this very same clinic. I know that I will not inform them about the ineffectiveness of their silly little sign. The local people working in the clinic have nothing to do with policy, and couldn't change it if they wanted to.

I try to be respectful of other people and their wishes, but as I saw on a t-shirt recently, "My rights do not end where your feelings begin."

[Oldgringo]

Call me a chicken if you must, but I'm not interested in paying someone to argue, on my behalf, that the sign was invalid. If the place has an old or otherwise invalidly worded sign, that serves notice that "they" do not want/need my business/presence. I do ignore gun-buster signs....in Texas.

I ran into a gun buster sign while taking my wife to the doctor last weekend. Our regular GP office was closed, and we went to one of the clinics in our health care group. On the front door was a sign with a red circle drawn around a pistol with a red line through the circle. The test said "No Firearms." There was no other sign of any kind that I could see, and believe me I looked. My wife sort of rolled her eyes at me, and I went back to the truck. We had already had a discussion about this at home and she didn't want my to cause a scene at the doctor's office over their gun policy.

I was CC at the time, and since I wasn't the patient I didn't see how they would ever know. I also knew that there were no criminal penalties for carrying past such a sign, but to appease my better half I disarmed until we got back to the truck.

I've thought a lot about that the last few days, and I'm still not sure what I will do if a similar circumstance happens again. And it probably will with a visit to this very same clinic. I know that I will not inform them about the ineffectiveness of their silly little sign. The local people working in the clinic have nothing to do with policy, and couldn't change it if they wanted to.

I try to be respectful of other people and their wishes, but as I saw on a t-shirt recently, "My rights do not end where your feelings begin."

10-4, good buddy! (who remembers that)