pros & cons of obvious security vs. hidden

[Tass]

I found out from a neighbor that last Friday night a car parked in my driveway, person(s) got out & walked around my house and the neighbor next door. Neighbor that witnessed was too far away and did not get a make/model on the vehicle.

My motion activated flood light has gone out and as of Friday, hadn't been replaced. I'm having new floods installed in the front as well as in the backyard. I don't think the creepy person made it to the backyard because the gate does not have a standard open/close and is difficult to operate if you aren't familiar with it (also makes noise). I asked my electrician about a game camera and he wasn't sure about it for security since they aren't silent & often have an indicator light when they go off. I'm thinking if someone finds out they are on camera (or thinks they are) they will pick an easier target. I have french doors in the back and that is going to be the weakest point for entry (and most secluded).

I had also planned on getting a driveway alarm (ir beam that signals inside the house if broken) to put on the back gate.

Thoughts?

Tass

[VMI77]

I found out from a neighbor that last Friday night a car parked in my driveway, person(s) got out & walked around my house and the neighbor next door. Neighbor that witnessed was too far away and did not get a make/model on the vehicle.

My motion activated flood light has gone out and as of Friday, hadn't been replaced. I'm having new floods installed in the front as well as in the backyard. I don't think the creepy person made it to the backyard because the gate does not have a standard open/close and is difficult to operate if you aren't familiar with it (also makes noise). I asked my electrician about a game camera and he wasn't sure about it for security since they aren't silent & often have an indicator light when they go off. I'm thinking if someone finds out they are on camera (or thinks they are) they will pick an easier target. I have french doors in the back and that is going to be the weakest point for entry (and most secluded).

I had also planned on getting a driveway alarm (ir beam that signals inside the house if broken) to put on the back gate.

Thoughts?

Tass

They'll just steal a game camera. The cheapest thing you can do is put stickers around the house warning that surveillance cameras are in use. But for around $400 you can buy an entire system with DVR, 4 cameras, the wiring, and software, and really monitor what's going on. If you've got a computer you're willing to use for the purpose you can buy a couple of cheap web cams ($10-$20) and Blue Iris software ($50) and set something up for under $100.

[Tass]

Thanks. I have an OLD desktop computer and an old thinkpad...i'll see if they'll work. I like the idea of the surveillance camera's but thought it would cost more to set up. I'd like to do the $400 set up, but can't afford it at this time.

Tass

[chasfm11]

For me, it comes down to whether you are interested in prevention or forensics. Cameras can definitely help catch BGs who are unsuccessful - if the picture quality is high enough and the images clear enough.

Years ago, I installed an X-10 setup (there are better systems on the marketplace today) that included motion sensed lights. So our inside and outside lights go on and off in changing pattern but not always at the exact same times every day and the motion floodlights will also activate. All the lights go on the system when the alarm sounds (it looks quite impressive at night) and the outside lights remain on. If I show up at the house and the outside lights are on during the day, I'm certain that the alarm system has been activated and act accordingly.

I'm in the process of adding to my system to have more motion sensed lights. I'm betting that sudden changes in the lighting, even at night, will provide a deterrent effect. After that is done, I may look at some sort of a camera system. Some initial research confirmed that the kinds of cameras that I want are not affordable in the quantity that I think that I need, at least right now.

[jimlongley]

My only problem with a game camera is that it stores its pictures in itself, and a savvy BG will just steal the camera, whereas an array of security cameras around the house might be storing in the house, but with today's instantaneous backup systems, it might be stored in a geographically diverse location.

[Moby]

Most criminals are cowards and the thought of being photographed or filmed is very powerful. There are easier targets.
I own a small business in a commercail metal bulding of 5 units. I have video cameras and if you look throught my glass door you see yourself on camera.
Both units on either side of me have been broken into, not mine. A game camera can be placed high enough so it cannot be reached without a ladder.
A flash indicating obvious survailance will deture all but the most determined criminal. I say this from direct expeirience. Not theory.
VIDEO WORKS! Also put up ADT type alarm stickers. And make sure you actually have an alarm. It just says GO AWAY to criminals.
(and lock your back gate)

[Excaliber]

Most criminals are cowards and the thought of being photographed or filmed is very powerful. There are easier targets.
I own a small business in a commercail metal bulding of 5 units. I have video cameras and if you look throught my glass door you see yourself on camera.
Both units on either side of me have been broken into, not mine. A game camera can be placed high enough so it cannot be reached without a ladder.
A flash indicating obvious survailance will deture all but the most determined criminal. I say this from direct expeirience. Not theory.
VIDEO WORKS! Also put up ADT type alarm stickers. And make sure you actually have an alarm. It just says GO AWAY to criminals.
(and lock your back gate)

Unfortunately, life isn't that simple.

Research on cameras that simply record (as opposed to those constantly monitored by police) is inconclusive regarding a deterrent effect.

While an individual criminal may be camera shy (which commonly happens when he is well known at the target location), most are not.

Keep in mind that every video you see on the evening news showing a convenience store, bank, jewelry store, or pawn shop robbery was filmed by obvious, conspicuously placed surveillance cameras.

[VMI77]

For me, it comes down to whether you are interested in prevention or forensics. Cameras can definitely help catch BGs who are unsuccessful - if the picture quality is high enough and the images clear enough.

Years ago, I installed an X-10 setup (there are better systems on the marketplace today) that included motion sensed lights. So our inside and outside lights go on and off in changing pattern but not always at the exact same times every day and the motion floodlights will also activate. All the lights go on the system when the alarm sounds (it looks quite impressive at night) and the outside lights remain on. If I show up at the house and the outside lights are on during the day, I'm certain that the alarm system has been activated and act accordingly.

I'm in the process of adding to my system to have more motion sensed lights. I'm betting that sudden changes in the lighting, even at night, will provide a deterrent effect. After that is done, I may look at some sort of a camera system. Some initial research confirmed that the kinds of cameras that I want are not affordable in the quantity that I think that I need, at least right now.

Cameras can provide both depending on the circumstances. I can be upstairs and turn on the TV and see just about everything going on outside, front and back (there are no entry points on the sides of my house). If someone comes to the door I can see who they are and decide if they're up to something and take appropriate precautions. Well, so not "prevention" exactly, but preparation, and in some cases, perhaps deterrence. If nothing else, once my cameras whet up, the number of strangers ringing my doorbell went down to near Zero.

[knotquiteawake]

Even if the Cameras are not a deterrent I have always appreciated their forensic benefits. I worked for a University with a very robust security camera system for building entrances, parking lots, and the accounting sections. While most of the parking lot stuff only served to give us a time frame for vehicle crimes (being high up on a pole and zoom and panning around on a timer made close of pictures impossible from recorded footage) the license plate cameras at the entrances could be used in conjunction with the time frame to get more information. Also the building entrance cameras were great in providing good a detailed description of the suspects were. In one case the local LEO recognized the suspect right away. In most cases it was simply a useful tool for making the university community aware of who/what to look out for. Less than 1/2 the time did camera footage ever lead to an arrest but I was happy to have the system than to not have it at all.

Just a single driveway camera could have helped you determine who this person was if it had enough detail to grab the front plate. Or at least a detailed description of the car and occupant to give to the local LEO.

I am considering putting one in my driveway but the cameras are so very conspicuous on residences that your neighbors thing you're a nut case and your wife hates how tacky it looks. So far I have not found the "perfect" camera to put up that will be out of sight but still recording to my computer.

[papajohn1964]

I wouldn't put a beam anywhere outside. They can be set off by dogs, cats, birds, grass being blown in the wind etc... You would have to run wiring out to it for power anyways so put a magnetic door contact on it instead.

We have a customer that is very security oriented ( I think they are just paranoid) but we give them what they want. They installed a generator out back in their loading dock area and put a 12' chain link fence around it and wanted it added to their security system. I advised that they put contacts on both gates but they insisted on beams on all 4 corners. At least 3 nights a week for the next 3-4 weeks they got alarms. SAPD started charging them after the 3rd one. We looked at the video and saw birds, a skunk and a opossum getting in the fence. They sealed up the bottom and top and put privacy netting around the outside so you couldn't see in. Alarms went down but still occurred. After several service calls we decided that the wind hitting the privacy netting pushed the fence in enough to break the beams. We ended up moving them in away from the fence (of course they had to pay for that) and it seamed to stop the FA's. moral of the story is outside beams are more trouble than they are worth IMHO.

[Tass]

Ok, help me out here...would I be able to use the magnetic contact on a wood gate?

[papajohn1964]

Ok, help me out here...would I be able to use the magnetic contact on a wood gate?

Yep, one side is a contact and that needs 2 conductors to it, the other side is just a magnet. You could wire it to a buzzer or bell in the house like you hear in a convenience store or if you have a alarm system it could be put on one of its zones.

[psijac]

If you house doesn't look classy to begin with adding cameras will only make it look like a drug dealer lives there.

Not sure if that is a plus or a minus

[cheezit]

i dont hide mine i feed them 2 cups of dog food a day. seen houses broken in to ever place i have ever lived. not happened to us yet. a few 75lbs dogs keep people out of mt yards

[tomtexan]

i dont hide mine i feed them 2 cups of dog food a day. seen houses broken in to ever place i have ever lived. not happened to us yet. a few 75lbs dogs keep people out of mt yards

Works every time.