Legal thoughts

[LDB415]

I realize this is not a law site. I realize most here are not attorneys. That said, I'm curious of opinions on the following HOA CCR declaration. It specifies "motorized vehicles". Could one argue non-motorized trailers aren't encompassed?

Section 9. Vehicles and Parking. The term "vehicles", as used herein, shall refer to all motorized vehicles including, without limitation, automobiles, trucks, motorhomes, boats, trailers, motorcycles, minibikes, scooters, go-carts, campers, buses, and vans. No vehicle may be parked or left upon any Lot in the Properties, except in a garage or other area designated by the Board, and in driveways for such temporary periods as may be specified by the Board from time to time. Any vehicle parked or left not in accordance with this section shall be considered a nuisance. No motorized vehicles shall be permitted on pathways or unpaved Common Area except for public safety vehicles and vehicles authorized by the Board.

[Tex1961]

I realize this is not a law site. I realize most here are not attorneys. That said, I'm curious of opinions on the following HOA CCR declaration. It specifies "motorized vehicles". Could one argue non-motorized trailers aren't encompassed?

Section 9. Vehicles and Parking. The term "vehicles", as used herein, shall refer to all motorized vehicles including, without limitation, automobiles, trucks, motorhomes, boats, trailers, motorcycles, minibikes, scooters, go-carts, campers, buses, and vans. No vehicle may be parked or left upon any Lot in the Properties, except in a garage or other area designated by the Board, and in driveways for such temporary periods as may be specified by the Board from time to time. Any vehicle parked or left not in accordance with this section shall be considered a nuisance. No motorized vehicles shall be permitted on pathways or unpaved Common Area except for public safety vehicles and vehicles authorized by the Board.

No.. Id say that the word trailer pretty much covers it.. Motorized vehicles "INCLUDING" xxx

[LDB415]

Thanks for the feedback. I figured that but hoped there might be a way to return the favor of causing trouble to them.

[Tex1961]

Thanks for the feedback. I figured that but hoped there might be a way to return the favor of causing trouble to them.

LOL… I know. I’m always happy to get one over my HOA. I’ve actually won quite a few disagreements with them.

[LDB415]

Back to plan B, win the lotto and have so much money I can bankrupt them.

[cirus]

Back to plan B, win the lotto and have so much money I can bankrupt them.

If I won the lotto I wouldn't be living in a HOA.

[03Lightningrocks]

We have a HOA of sorts but it is not connected to the title on my home so they have limited authority of law. What they do instead is file a complaint with the City of Plano and then the city will come out and give you a citation for violating a city code. Then you are hosed. You either fight it in court or just comply. For instance. I had two of my work vans parked in my rear entry driveway. I had parked them about two feet onto my grass so I had room to pull my pickup in and out of the garage. I received a notice from the city to get my vehicles off the grass. I did and can still pull in but it is a tight fit. Our HOA is more like a club for "Karens" than anything else.

[srothstein]

Well, if you want to just drive them crazy and don't mind spending a little, kid's toys like bicycles and wagons aren't mentioned. A 3 or 4 to one scale model (as in 3 or 4 times the size) of a little red wagon left out would do the job. And it wouldn't cost too much to build it out of wood, maybe throw a little red paint on it.

[gregthehand]

Well, if you want to just drive them crazy and don't mind spending a little, kid's toys like bicycles and wagons aren't mentioned. A 3 or 4 to one scale model (as in 3 or 4 times the size) of a little red wagon left out would do the job. And it wouldn't cost too much to build it out of wood, maybe throw a little red paint on it.

That will fall under lawn/lot maintenance. Most all deed restrictions have fairly ambiguous language to cover such situations where people just leave stuff out. Just like they have a section where all permanent architectural changes have to be approved. I'm the president of my HOA because I was frustrated with my HOA. So, I went to a meeting and found out that the people on the board were all burnt out and jaded with their neighbors. So I volunteered (you probably don't even have to run and get voted in, most HOAs are desperate for help) and now I've been on the board for two years. We're also self managed though. We don't have a company that drives around looking for deed restrictions and we're a fairly hands off HOA.

The amount of people that want to fight us though is insane. Comments like "I want to bankrupt the HOA" are common and I've heard them from a guy who had two foot tall weeds in his yard and OSB covering his garage door. It's a lot easier to blow up trains than to make them run on time. If you're having issues, start going to the meetings. If you don't like what you hear, be part of the solution. Once you're on the board, you can make motions to change the deed restrictions.

[powerboatr]

so i read this, you can only park in your garage?? not in your driveway? that sort of limits you to a small pickup or car??

seems contrary to private property rights that are protected by the state , no matter what hoa/poa declares


complaining about you having your tire on your own grass.. omg
but city rules are not CCR or deed restrictions, man i would have fun in plano. put concrete blocks under your tires..its not grass?
or widen the drive with pavers? you know to walk on

i can see no parking on grass in middle of yard, but not a tire just over the edge of concrete touching the grass

we have here a thing you have to register your RV with POA every year, and they are to let you know when its time to renew, they never do so after 4 years they are prohibited by precedent from coming after you to renew your rv permit.
they are trying to TOW or boot boat trailers at our community boat ramp. if you dont have a sticker..

i am contemplating buying a boat trailer and parking it there to wait with no sticker. then go legal route to screw them over, as the directors have no sense of tex law, despite all the information provided.
our monthly assessments clearly defined in CCR/deed restrictions as providing use to all POA community property , including pool, boat ramp etc. so they cant now charge you a fee to use something you already pay for in assessments each month. but we have new directors and 3 are from CA...so they have bent minds and will find out the hard way when someones trailer gets damaged or towed

most have no idea the case law that set the 4 year rule
and when poa/hoa fails to enforce CCR or deed restrictions , but then chooses to enforce by picking and choosing while blatant violations go un checked, they negate the entire document and said rules
but rvs are permitted on ones PROPERTY . except converted busses or cab over bed campers that free stand
we have sq ft limits on homes, they must be 750 sq feet at least and no park model rv mobile homes as they are under 750 sq ft.
but we have over 10 they have been allowed to remain now for over 3 years.
we have most homes are 1800 or better.

i served 2 tours as a Director here and i dont let them play games when we get new directors. most never read or comprehend section 209 of property code, which is LAW, nor the dedicatory instruments for our community
policies cannot be created to circumvent deed restrictions
deed restrictions must be changed to affect changes in policy in the deed restrictions /ccr

we have a guy that drives around on monday writing up mowing and other violations so they get processed
grass or weeds over 12inches, you get one notice and then they cut it and charge you a fee.
we have lots of folks that live out of our area and use it as weekend retreat. they think grass does not grow if your not here.

i have heard the bankrupt poa at a few meetings...i just smiled. if directors are following the 209 and deed restrictions, its really easy
but then being karens or richards makes it difficult. so you hit them with the statute .

our deed restrictions are really easy and common sense based. our problems arise with out of state people trying to tell the board how its done in other states and think we must comply with those states
texas has decent property owner protections, and finally starting to fix section 209

developers are the biggest problem, they are exempt until owners take over the association

we got ours in 2012 and it took 7 years to get in the black and start fixing roads, mowing, etc. now we do pretty good until new directors are elected that have the notion they know everything and try to violate the easy ccrs or create things that violate section 209. most never read or try to educate themselves .

[mayor]

I realize this is not a law site. I realize most here are not attorneys. That said, I'm curious of opinions on the following HOA CCR declaration. It specifies "motorized vehicles". Could one argue non-motorized trailers aren't encompassed?

Section 9. Vehicles and Parking. The term "vehicles", as used herein, shall refer to all motorized vehicles including, without limitation, automobiles, trucks, motorhomes, boats, trailers, motorcycles, minibikes, scooters, go-carts, campers, buses, and vans. No vehicle may be parked or left upon any Lot in the Properties, except in a garage or other area designated by the Board, and in driveways for such temporary periods as may be specified by the Board from time to time. Any vehicle parked or left not in accordance with this section shall be considered a nuisance. No motorized vehicles shall be permitted on pathways or unpaved Common Area except for public safety vehicles and vehicles authorized by the Board.

One of the many reasons I wouldn't live anywhere with an HOA. The ordinances in my small town are bad enough. I've been on my property since before any ordinances and it's non-conforming (zoned multi family housing) and they try to harass me anyway.

[Rafe]

On the surface, HOAs seem like a good idea. Keep the neighborhood in order and all; help prevent a single property from running down all the property values.

But in retrospect... Been in mine over 15 years. House was a Lennar everything-included new construction (wouldn't do that again, either) and the HOA agreement I agreed to then looks almost nothing like it does now. The association has the authority, with the necessary votes (which is a pretty minimal quorum) to change basically whatever they want.

The latest bit has a number of us flamin' mad. Lennar created the minimalist, initial landscaping; the homeowners didn't. A lot of us on the larger lots (only slightly larger) have oak trees that were planted fairly close to the edges of both the driveway and the sidewalk; not right next to them, but only about 8 feet away. Those of us who have nurtured and taken care of those oak trees now have large, healthy, shade-giving canopies.

The new edict from the HOA is that no tree limb or other plant can overhang any part of the street or a sidewalk. We have until October to come into compliance. I had one arborist out to look at it, and he said that cutting back that much of the tree would A) look absolutely terrible, and B) runs the risk of killing the tree because so much of it would have to be removed to make it look even slightly balanced after lopping off everything over and near the sidewalk. He also pointed out that if you wanted to attempt such a drastic pruning, you'd want to wait until late winter when the tree was dormant. Hacking it apart in Houston in August or September just increases the odds it won't survive. He said that honestly I'd probably be better off removing the tree entirely.

We have a petition, now with over 30 signatures, trying to repeal the new edict. But the HOA president is a mini-tyrant, and there's nothing in the bylaws that allows for an automatic repeal of a rule. Best we can do is bring it to a new vote...and then hope that we actually all get notified of the meeting time and location.

Trivia that we had to look up: I don't know if it's the same in other states, but HOAs have the power to levy property liens (into which they can stack back, daily-accrued penalties--in our agreement that's typically $200 per day--and attorney fees), and then sue for foreclosure against the lien. Yep; an HOA can take your home away from you.

[LDB415]

Some HOA people need a nice long visit by Guido and Luigi.

[03Lightningrocks]

On the surface, HOAs seem like a good idea. Keep the neighborhood in order and all; help prevent a single property from running down all the property values.

But in retrospect... Been in mine over 15 years. House was a Lennar everything-included new construction (wouldn't do that again, either) and the HOA agreement I agreed to then looks almost nothing like it does now. The association has the authority, with the necessary votes (which is a pretty minimal quorum) to change basically whatever they want.

The latest bit has a number of us flamin' mad. Lennar created the minimalist, initial landscaping; the homeowners didn't. A lot of us on the larger lots (only slightly larger) have oak trees that were planted fairly close to the edges of both the driveway and the sidewalk; not right next to them, but only about 8 feet away. Those of us who have nurtured and taken care of those oak trees now have large, healthy, shade-giving canopies.

The new edict from the HOA is that no tree limb or other plant can overhang any part of the street or a sidewalk. We have until October to come into compliance. I had one arborist out to look at it, and he said that cutting back that much of the tree would A) look absolutely terrible, and B) runs the risk of killing the tree because so much of it would have to be removed to make it look even slightly balanced after lopping off everything over and near the sidewalk. He also pointed out that if you wanted to attempt such a drastic pruning, you'd want to wait until late winter when the tree was dormant. Hacking it apart in Houston in August or September just increases the odds it won't survive. He said that honestly I'd probably be better off removing the tree entirely.

We have a petition, now with over 30 signatures, trying to repeal the new edict. But the HOA president is a mini-tyrant, and there's nothing in the bylaws that allows for an automatic repeal of a rule. Best we can do is bring it to a new vote...and then hope that we actually all get notified of the meeting time and location.

Trivia that we had to look up: I don't know if it's the same in other states, but HOAs have the power to levy property liens (into which they can stack back, daily-accrued penalties--in our agreement that's typically $200 per day--and attorney fees), and then sue for foreclosure against the lien. Yep; an HOA can take your home away from you.

We have a similar ordinance here in Plano but the difference is that the tree limbs must be at least 10 foot above the sidewalk.

[Mel]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I WOULD NEVER, EVER, LIVE UNDER AN HOA! The idea that someone else can tell me what I can or can't do with my property is beyond my comprehension.

I understand that cities have certain ordinances, but those are almost always reasonable.

I have NEVER, in my 80 years of life, known a person that was happy with their HOA!