Page 1 of 2

Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:33 pm
by flb_78
I was wondering if there's any penalty for not paying the "fine". As far as I can find, the only thing that happens is there's an additional $25 surcharge added on. It's not a criminal violation. They can't report to the DPS to put it on one's driving record. They can't report to the insurance companies.

It looks like the worst thing is that they can turn it over to a collections agency where they can add-on some more fees and surcharges.

The only thing I would be worried about would be that the collection agency could file suit.

Any thoughts or opinions?

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:42 pm
by The Annoyed Man
How about when they issue a warrant for your arrest for unpaid tickets? The next time you get stopped, the LEO runs your ID and the warrant comes up. You get arrested. Then you lose the CHL. Just pay the ticket, and the problem goes away.

At least that's what I'd be worried about.

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:47 pm
by flb_78
Nope, they can't issue a warrant on it either.

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:51 pm
by gigag04
Cameras are a civil deal. At least around these parts. I would call them and have them prove that it was you driving.

I think it's stupid to have a camera writing a civil "citation" for a criminal act. There is no due process...

They even send them to LE agencies if patrol car blows a light, even if running code.

I heard a story of a guy getting a picture of his car going through a red light, and demanding a fine. So, our hero takes the fine amount ($75 iirc) and lays it out on the table. Snaps a picture, and sends in a picture of the fine.

The fine company sent back a picture of handcuffs.



Obviously it's a fake story, but I find it hilarious. In a neighboring city, the population voted and had the red light cameras pulled down. I do think they make it safer, and reduce crashes, however there are a number of issues to iron out.

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:54 pm
by flb_78
Also, the address to mail the "fine" to is

Traffic Signal Safety Program
POBox 742503
Cincinnati, OH 45274-2503

That's quite a ways from Amarillo according to Google.

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:59 pm
by chartreuse
IIRC there's been a deal of broo ha ha in AZ over this, with the courts ruling that tickets "issued" by a camera are not valid.

Of course I most likely only remember parts of the story, imperfectly at that, but you might want to read up on it and then decide whether it's worth contesting it.

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:05 am
by CrimsonSoul
gigag04 wrote: I heard a story of a guy getting a picture of his car going through a red light, and demanding a fine. So, our hero takes the fine amount ($75 iirc) and lays it out on the table. Snaps a picture, and sends in a picture of the fine.

The fine company sent back a picture of handcuffs.



Obviously it's a fake story, but I find it hilarious. In a neighboring city, the population voted and had the red light cameras pulled down. I do think they make it safer, and reduce crashes, however there are a number of issues to iron out.
don't be too sure about that

http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/handcuff.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:07 am
by gigag04
CrimsonSoul wrote:
gigag04 wrote: I heard a story of a guy getting a picture of his car going through a red light, and demanding a fine. So, our hero takes the fine amount ($75 iirc) and lays it out on the table. Snaps a picture, and sends in a picture of the fine.

The fine company sent back a picture of handcuffs.



Obviously it's a fake story, but I find it hilarious. In a neighboring city, the population voted and had the red light cameras pulled down. I do think they make it safer, and reduce crashes, however there are a number of issues to iron out.
don't be too sure about that

http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/handcuff.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
touche sir.

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:34 am
by Mike1951
As previously mentioned:
Sec. 707.007. AMOUNT OF CIVIL PENALTY; LATE PAYMENT PENALTY. If a local authority enacts an ordinance to enforce compliance with the instructions of a traffic-control signal by the imposition of a civil or administrative penalty, the amount of:

(1) the civil or administrative penalty may not exceed $75; and

(2) a late payment penalty may not exceed $25.

Added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1149, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2007.
Possible result:
Sec. 707.017. ENFORCEMENT. If the owner of a motor vehicle is delinquent in the payment of a civil penalty imposed under this chapter, the county assessor-collector or the Texas Department of Transportation may refuse to register a motor vehicle alleged to have been involved in the violation.

Added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1149, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2007.


Sec. 707.018. IMPOSITION OF CIVIL PENALTY NOT A CONVICTION. The imposition of a civil penalty under this chapter is not a conviction and may not be considered a conviction for any purpose.

Added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1149, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2007.

Sec. 707.019. FAILURE TO PAY CIVIL PENALTY. (a) If the owner of the motor vehicle fails to timely pay the amount of the civil penalty imposed against the owner:

(1) an arrest warrant may not be issued for the owner; and

(2) the imposition of the civil penalty may not be recorded on the owner's driving record.

(b) Notice of Subsection (a) must be included in the notice of violation required by Section 707.011(c).

Added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1149, Sec. 1, eff. September 1, 2007.
Here is a 10/20/09 Houston Chronicle article about Harris County refusing to block vehicle registrations related to Houston's red light citations:

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archi ... 09_4801618" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So it appears to rest with your county tax assessor/collector whether there is any penalty.

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:33 pm
by bdickens
I heard about that. Hooray for Harris Co.


I've been wondering how, if they just send you your ticket in the mail, they can prove that you got it. How can you be responsible for paying something you don't even know you owe?

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:07 pm
by nitrogen
bdickens wrote:I heard about that. Hooray for Harris Co.


I've been wondering how, if they just send you your ticket in the mail, they can prove that you got it. How can you be responsible for paying something you don't even know you owe?
The same way the state makes you responsible for the fine even if you weren't driving: by legislative fiat.

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:45 pm
by Rex B
As much as it ticks me off to see people run red lights, these cameras are not the answer.
And I don't think posting a patrol car on every corner is the answer either.

Personally, I'd rather those photos were sent to local LE. Then have a uniform LEO in a marked car (with lights running?) knock on their door and hold a prayer meeting with the culprit right there on the front porch, while the neighbors watch through their curtains.

I bet that would result in real behavior modification. :nono:

Next, we can work on "Rolling stop signs" and "Cutting through parking lots"

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:01 pm
by MechAg94
I heard an interview with a Texas legislator recently talking about that. Apparently, they passed some legislation regulating it or at least tried to. It is a civil penalty, but I think they also put in some regulations on where they can put and requiring a traffic study be done first. I think it was geared toward preventing it from being used as a revenue stream. I think it also addressed keeping yellow light times based on state standards and such also.

Anyone know details on that?

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:35 pm
by gtrman66
My wife had a couple last year and didn't pay. It said the county would hold up the registration of the vehicle... it didn't. Haven't heard anything else on it. BTW, the van is registered in my name not hers, so if they come after me, how does that wash with innocent until proven guilty? I wasn't driving.

A lawyer in FW was pursuing a court order to stop them because the company that monitors the cameras is in AZ and they do not have a license to investigate in the state of TX, therefore they have not legal right to come after squat. I'm curious how thats going.

Re: Any penalty for not paying a "Red Light Camera Ticket"?

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:13 pm
by adv
I got a real nice pic of my Jeep with my ticket :mrgreen:

If you're going to Frys on I 45 beware those traffic lights DOH!!!!!