They're coming for your Air Conditioners!

[sjfcontrol]

Had to have one of my AC units serviced today.

Did everybody know that as of this year, they are no longer making R-22 refrigerant?
Did you know that the cost of R-22 has tripled? 4-lbs of refrigerant cost me $300! (Plus the service call)

The AC is only 8-years old, and according to the service tech, as of 2020 they will no longer be allowed to service R-22 based systems. That assumes the current supply of R-22 lasts that long.

The tech was unable to get the system in balance. Said it needed "at least" new TXV valve. Quoted $1411 to install parts & labor with 1-year warranty. However, he could replace the entire coil (and TXV) for $50 more (after rebating $400) and that would have a 5-year warranty.

Anybody have any idea if these are reasonable prices?

[Keith B]

What company was it? 03lightningrocks on here has an A/C company in Plano and has been in business for a long time.

[Keith B]

BTW, what the tech told you is not 100% fact.. The 2020 date says they can no longer produce R-22 to service exiting units, but you can still service units with r-22 been recovered and recycled/reclaimed. I just replaced my systems 2 years ago and went from SER 10 to SER 16 and cut my electric bills in half over the summer.

[sjfcontrol]

What company was it? 03lightningrocks on here has an A/C company in Plano and has been in business for a long time.

I used Plano Air -- as advised on another thread.

He said they are no longer manufacturing R-22 now (the refrigerant), which is why it costs so much.

[Keith B]

What company was it? 03lightningrocks on here has an A/C company in Plano and has been in business for a long time.

I used Plano Air -- as advised on another thread.

He said they are no longer manufacturing R-22 now (the refrigerant), which is why it costs so much.

That is 03lightningrocks business. And, I believe they can still produce it, but many have moved away from it and moved to R-410 (the new home refrigerant) and that is driving the cost due to supply and demand. Here is the real scoop http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseou ... seout.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[barstoolguru]

last year I bought a new outside unit and ir cost me 1300+ the Freon charge was another 500.00 so you are in the ball park. if I had it to do again I would replace the whole system with a new one rated the best you can do with the old one is seer-16 but a new one you can get up to seer-22 and the system will pay for itself with the savings. I had my attic blow with insulation too and my bill went from 400.00 a month to 200.00 and has paid for itself already

[Keith B]

Here's another good article on R-22 availability https://www.acca.org/archives/industry- ... t-air/6509" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JustMe]

There is a HVAC guy here in Sherman that does great work--and is reasonable--Markle & son--John is a friend also

[03Lightningrocks]

Thanks Keith... those links help to explain it. Part of the problem we are all having with the R22 is that the rules and dates keep changing. I bet I can ask five different techs about the rules and get twenty different answers. If by servicing it he meant, (add R22) to it, that is what some of the insiders are telling our guys(speculation based on the way the EPA is reacting to political pressures). Quite frankly, I highly doubt your present outdoor unit will still be operational by then anyway. The manufacturers have been circumventing the attempts at phasing out R22 units by manufacturing "dry charged" R22 units. This created a stir in the land and a few months back the EPA once again changed the rules on manufacturing new R22. They cut allowable production by 60%. This was the reason they gave us for the increased costs. Our cost on R22 shot up 400% in about three days. The prices settled some but stayed at least 300% higher. The rumor mill also has it that we will soon be able to purchase "recycled" R22 at a lower price. It was not economically feasable until recently for anyone to start selling recycled R22. I will probably go that way, once it is available and I can be sure the product is not going to create contamination issues.

The TXV is what regulates the flow of refrigerant through the coil and if not working properely will make balancing the pressures properely impossible.

I think the point he was trying to make is that it does not make sense to replace the TXV on your present coil. Most coils in that age range are only compatible with R22 and when your outdoor unit quits working, which is likely in the next couple years, you will have to change the coil to go with the new 410A unit. The other risk, due to the age of your coil, is that we could replace the TXV and then find your coil leaking refrigerant in the next year or so. You may be better off putting that money into a new 410A compatible coil. One that will be compatible with the new refrigerant when you replace your outdoor unit. The Lennox coils we are installing now can be used for either refrigerant. Do this and when your outdoor unit quits, you won't have to replace the indoor coil with it.

Eight years old may not seem old when compared to the units made 25 years ago but in todays world, most lower range equipment(installed by most builders, even the high end builders), will average 6-8 years and mid level equipment will average 8-10 years. Top level can average 10-15 depending on your luck. There are some builder quality coils in your area that we find leaking refrigerant after five years. They have a horrible track record.

My appologies for any miscommunications on this situation. The simple way to explain it all is that R22 is going higher. Replacing the TXV on an 8 year old coil is not a great idea due to the risk of further problems with the coil combined with the fact that the coil will have to be replaced when you change your outdoor unit anyway.

[AEA]

I just replaced my entire system (3 ton outside unit + Heating system) including air handler in Dec 2010. I replaced a system that had lasted for 14 years!

I went with the newer R410A system, knowing that R22 would be more expensive and less efficient in the future.

I have already seen a dramatic decrease in my AC monthly electric bills. Well worth the initial outlay and I believe it will pay for itself over time.

[sjfcontrol]

I gather it's illegal for a homeowner to buy the equipment and supplies, and service his own equipment? That gauge header can't be that expensive. With three units, it'd pay for itself.

[G26ster]

My A/C/Heat unit has to be over 20 years old, and except for minor repairs has worked. I know that it's just a matter of time (probably short) before it goes out, and I will replace everything at that time, or before. Trouble is, I don't know anything about the modern units, as in tonnage, seer ratings, etc. or just what gets replaced when getting a new "system" I assume that included the gas furnace too. My home is only 1450 sq. ft. I'd be interested in feedback.

[WildBill]

I gather it's illegal for a homeowner to buy the equipment and supplies, and service his own equipment? That gauge header can't be that expensive. With three units, it'd pay for itself.

I can't fathom how it would be illegal ... but law makers can be a sneaky bunch. Maybe some of the suppliers don't like to sell to "the public" but I doubt it's illegal. Check the internet.

[sjfcontrol]

I gather it's illegal for a homeowner to buy the equipment and supplies, and service his own equipment? That gauge header can't be that expensive. With three units, it'd pay for itself.

I can't fathom how it would be illegal ... but law makers can be a sneaky bunch. Maybe some of the suppliers don't like to sell to "the public" but I doubt it's illegal. Check the internet.

I seem to recall hearing that you need a license to do any HVAC work that might result in a release of refrigerant. That would be enforced by requiring a license to buy the refrigerant, and possibly the metering tools. But I don't know that for a fact.