After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby The Annoyed Man » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:15 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
amber wrote:
baldeagle wrote:People who turn in their neighbors will be among the first to die in the revolution. People who support gun confiscation will be like the Tories in the Revolution. They won't fare well. When people's rights are violated, they don't take it kindly, and they don't forget who did it to them.

They're doing fine and even prospering in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and DC to name a few places.

[ Image ]

Now that is just a little bit scary. I copied the URL and tried it in Safari instead of chrome. Creeped me out. :shock:

Hah! I figured it out!
Image
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby texanjoker » Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:49 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
amber wrote:
baldeagle wrote:People who turn in their neighbors will be among the first to die in the revolution. People who support gun confiscation will be like the Tories in the Revolution. They won't fare well. When people's rights are violated, they don't take it kindly, and they don't forget who did it to them.

They're doing fine and even prospering in New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and DC to name a few places.

[ Image ]

Now that is just a little bit scary. I copied the URL and tried it in Safari instead of chrome. Creeped me out. :shock:

Hah! I figured it out!
[ Image ]

that is funny
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby anygunanywhere » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:17 am

handog wrote:What's a pustule :headscratch


Current occupant of the white house.

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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby Oldgringo » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:48 am

Here are a few that you can't trust. Is your church on the list? Mine is.
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby Jeff B. » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:22 am

I think we could see a sudden culture of silence and shunning.


You'll see a great deal of avoidance, similar to the fictional conversation in the OP. To be sure there will be baiting from the grabbers and a few ill advised replies from those who are angry about whatever nonsense "they" attempt to put in place. Because of the open nature of the internet, I believe that sports shooters, hunters, gun enthusiasts, patriots and those who generally believe in our Constitutional rights and form of governance as a Republic, will start "gettign coffee" and the like. There will be a great deal more local FTF meeting than internet discussion, especially of topics that could be considered "delicate". Here in Texas, I expect FTF private sales to continue under State Government approval. If not, they'll continue but based on familiarity and trust.

Unfortunately, I don't think that the grabbers will be satisfied with a new mammoth database and bloated BATFE. They'll need to use that hammer, bringing us to a situation that lends itself to the venting of some of the anger, frustration and alienation that has built up "on the right".

Just what we need! Another bitterly divisive issue to pit one portion of society against another. If that's not the recipe for success, I don't know what is!

(If your looking to instigate a low intensity conflict in your country, that is)

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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby sjfcontrol » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:42 am

Oldgringo wrote: Here are a few that you can't trust. Is your church on the list? Mine is.


This one stood out. :headscratch
American Firearms Association
Collin county CHL classes -- http://www.ShootingStarsTraining.com
Range Rule: "The front gate lock is not an acceptable target."
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Never Forget. Image
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby VMI77 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:49 am

anygunanywhere wrote:Let's just suspend reality for a moment and assume that the gun ban has been in place for two weeks. The goberment in all of their efficient manner is still trying to set up the logistics to support the pustule's executive orders. The pustule decides that things are no progressing fast enough so he urges all safety minded pustule worshippers to rat out the criminals who are not planning on complying with his EO.

Let's develop an imaginary citizen, Ruger Wesson Winchester, RW for short. He and his wife and three offspring (mix of boys and girls) live in middle class neighborhood in small town Texas. RW is a life NRA and TSRA, a veteran. He has a CHL as does Mrs. Winchester. She shoots too. So do the kiddoes. Gun family.

RW has a mix of firearms in a safe. He owns a few ARs but is far and away not a prolific owner. He has his packing EDC as does the missus. A few plinkers and shootguns for hunting and a deer rifle or two.

The family is active socially and are very active with their kiddoes.

At a school event, Mr and Mrs RWS are at the school stadium watching one of their children compete. Sitting in the row in front of them are some aquaintances, Mr and Mrs Algore Jarrett Feinstein-Pelosi. They know each other through various small town events.

During a lull in the action Mr F-P turns around to RW and says "I am glad that pustule took decisive action and is removing guns from the streets. I feel safer already." RW ignores the comment.

Mrs F-P looks at Mrs RW and says "I saw you at the butcher shop the other day picking up some wild game your family shot last year. Too bad (snork) you have to turn in your guns so you can't kill any more bambis. Mrs RW ignores her too.

Mr F-P makes another stab. "YOu know, it is no secret that you are a gun nut. I seen you at that DU banquet at the Holiday Inn. I was there eating with Mrs F-P at the buffet. They have a great tofu buffet. My friend says he seen you at a Friends of the NRA dinner a few years back. He told me no way is he going to jail so he is registering all his guns and will give them up if they ask. I hope you are going to do the same cause it is for the chilrdren dontchaknow."

Mr. RW looks at him and says "I will do what I have to do". Nothing more.

A few days late Mr Feinstein=Pelosi calls the 800 number and turns in Mr RW. No real reason, He wants a safe town and it is for the children.

Two weeks later BATFE jackboots kick down MR RW's door. The pustule has declared that there needs to be some examples set so compliance will go easier.

You can imagine what the rest of their lives is like.

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO TRUST?

Anygunanywhere


Almost no one automatically....but as I perceive the order of threat: 1) family members who don't like you, your attitude, your politics, are envious...etc, and even those who do but get tricked into revealing information by the Feds; 2) friends and acquaintances (not necessarily your buddy, but his liberal wife, for instance) --again, trusted friends may be tricked by the Feds; 3) neighbors that don't like you or your politics or your kids or the car you drive, etc; and 4) strangers --no one can betray you if they don't know anything about you. IOW, the better someone knows you, the greater potential threat they are --even fellow gun owners that might be considered friends. Say, for example, friend Bubba gets caught with a prohibited weapon, but the Feds cut him a deal to let him off and spare his family if he rats out his buds.

You have to make a judgement based on what you know and can determine about the person, always aware that some people you consider trusted friends and family may turn on your when their neck is in the noose. I only know three people I can trust absolutely: my wife and my two sons. I wouldn't automatically assume I can trust anyone else in the family, even though most of them are pro RKBA and own guns. OTOH, if it would save my sons, I'd expect to be sacrificed to protect them if that was necessary. Knowing my wife would not want me to sacrifice myself for her and that I don't want her to sacrifice herself for me, we'd probably go down as a team.
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby VMI77 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:54 am

mamabearCali wrote:I think we could see a sudden culture of silence and shunning. Quite honestly I know who amoungst my friends that I can talk with and not, and you can bet I will no longer be giving 2nd amendment lessons post ban. If things go crazy, I will not have the afore mentioned conversation because I would not continue speaking with her. Resistance to a tyrannical govt requires judicious conversation. If this nightmare goes down, do not give way to idle talk. Speak only when you are amoungst friends and you know you are safe.



How will you know that someone you trusted didn't get caught and turned by the Feds to save himself and his family? Or that a child or spouse of someone you trusted didn't get tricked into unintentionally revealing information about you to the Feds? The family members who aren't clued into things and tend to trust authority can be very dangerous, as they can be tricked into giving you up without even realizing what they're doing.
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby VMI77 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:56 am

mamabearCali wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
mamabearCali wrote:I think we could see a sudden culture of silence and shunning. Quite honestly I know who amoungst my friends that I can talk with and not, and you can bet I will no longer be giving 2nd amendment lessons post ban. If things go crazy, I will not have the afore mentioned conversation because I would not continue speaking with her. Resistance to a tyrannical govt requires judicious conversation. If this nightmare goes down, do not give way to idle talk. Speak only when you are amoungst friends and you know you are safe.


Even family relationships will be strained.

One of my D-I-L is a staunch anti. I do not trust her. She can be the vindictive sort like her parents.

Anygunanywhere




I am in the same boat. My husbands entire side is very anti. They are good people and love their son, so at this time I am not terribly worried. However I am sure they would apply pressure to my DH to try and get him to comply. Not worried about him, but rather if things got nasty what might be inadvertently said. They are talking with a neighbor.....worried....the neighbor calls it in. I think a judicious lie would be advantageous to out everyone at ease.

However it would make family gatherings all the more stressful and likely much shorter visits.


That is exactly the kind of relationship the authorities will exploit. They will probably be easily convinced that giving the Feds what they want is in the best interest of their son....and the Feds will lie to them and tell them that if they just give them what they need then their son will be ok and they won't charge him with anything.
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby fickman » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:11 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:Mr and Mrs Algore Jarrett Feinstein-Pelosi

This part made me belly laugh. Thanks.
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby VMI77 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:23 pm

After reading Matt Bracken's latest I realize how foolish and simplistic my response was. Supposedly, no one can withstand waterboarding, so when the Feds start waterboarding your friends and family to find out where weapons are stashed, "trust" will be irrelevant.
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby mamabearCali » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:28 pm

VMI77 wrote:
That is exactly the kind of relationship the authorities will exploit. They will probably be easily convinced that giving the Feds what they want is in the best interest of their son....and the Feds will lie to them and tell them that if they just give them what they need then their son will be ok and they won't charge him with anything.


This is why I suggested judicious lies. To those you don't know for certain that they are true blue.....there are two choices, disassociation or lies ( you pick your flavor of lie). There will always be snitches and those who turn coat, one cannot mitigate all risk. It is risky talking about this anywhere especially on an online forum. Life is not without risk, resisting a tyrannical govt intent on enslaving all of us has great risk. However, unless one is willing to roll over and expose your throat to the wolf at the door, the risk will simply become part of the status quo.
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby mamabearCali » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:53 pm

VMI77 wrote:After reading Matt Bracken's latest I realize how foolish and simplistic my response was. Supposedly, no one can withstand waterboarding, so when the Feds start waterboarding your friends and family to find out where weapons are stashed, "trust" will be irrelevant.


If the Feds are water boarding our family and friends we had better understand where we are at. Our govt, then considers itself at war with us so we had better act accordingly. It is no longer a legitimate authority and must be resisted. One does not then wait at home for a visit from the black SUV's with a ho hum attitude. Move, get going, try to place your family in relative safety (no where is really safe then, but do your best), then be prepared to give your life to try to give them freedom. Either do that or retreat to Mexico where rule of law means nearly nothing and try to become invisible for as long as you can.
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby GeekwithaGun » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:20 pm

mamabearCali wrote:This is why I suggested judicious lies. To those you don't know for certain that they are true blue.....there are two choices, disassociation or lies ( you pick your flavor of lie). There will always be snitches and those who turn coat, one cannot mitigate all risk. It is risky talking about this anywhere especially on an online forum. Life is not without risk, resisting a tyrannical govt intent on enslaving all of us has great risk. However, unless one is willing to roll over and expose your throat to the wolf at the door, the risk will simply become part of the status quo.


This is my thought as well, I have never owned a tinfoil hat, don't want one, but there are a lot of things happening for real that can't be ignored. I ran across this article from September:

Obama’s internet ‘kill swtich’by Sheila Liaugminas | 22 Sep 2012
http://www.mercatornet.com/sheila_liaugminas/view/11281
The president of the United States will be able to essentially flip switch and turn off the Internet during times of a national crisis or emergency, as defined by the president. I don’t know what limits there are on it, but it’s cybersecurity, and the president’s going to have that power…

“At a Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee hearing, [Secretary of Homeland Security Janet] Napolitano said the executive order is ‘still being drafted in the inter-agency process’ and ‘is close to completion depending on a few issues that need to be resolved at the highest levels.’”

It says here, “The White House began to explore an executive order last month after Senate Republicans blocked” the bill. Yep. Republicans said (summarized), “What do you mean the president’s gonna have the power to turn off the Internet? We’re not gonna do that!” So Obama said, “To heck with you guys. We’ll just bypass you.” Obama is again set to bypass Congress, which has rejected any attempt to pass this kind of legislation

All of which is not new. He took this stance a while back.

“The president expressed frustration, saying we have got to scour everything and push the envelope in finding things we can do on our own.”For Mr. Obama, that meeting was a turning point. As a senator and presidential candidate, he had criticized George W. Bush for flouting the role of Congress. And during his first two years in the White House, when Democrats controlled Congress, Mr. Obama largely worked through the legislative process to achieve his domestic policy goals.

But increasingly in recent months, the administration has been seeking ways to act without Congress. Branding its unilateral efforts “We Can’t Wait,” a slogan that aides said Mr. Obama coined at that strategy meeting, the White House has rolled out dozens of new policies…

Each time, Mr. Obama has emphasized the fact that he is bypassing lawmakers. When he announced a cut in refinancing fees for federally insured mortgages last month, for example, he said: “If Congress refuses to act, I’ve said that I’ll continue to do everything in my power to act without them.”
Aides say many more such moves are coming. Not just a short-term shift in governing style and a re-election strategy, Mr. Obama’s increasingly assertive use of executive action could foreshadow pitched battles over the separation of powers in his second term, should he win and Republicans consolidate their power in Congress.

...
[more at link]


This is the executive order that allows the president to take over public and private communications

"Executive Order -- Assignment of National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions" signed on July 06, 2012 http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/06/executive-order-assignment-national-security-and-emergency-preparedness-

I beleive it was put in place after legislation failed to pass, but don't quote me on that. We all have to remember that he does plan to bypass the legislative branch by issuing executive orders, constitutional or not.
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Re: After The Ban - Who Can You Trust?

Postby recaffeination » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:23 pm

Although the French are maligned by some gun owners, there is much we can learn from them about resistance to evil politicians and their thugs.
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