Any Plumbers out there? need advice.
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Topic author - Senior Member
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Any Plumbers out there? need advice.
he city is replacing the water lines with completely new system. the old main line, supply and meters were in the rear of the houses. The new lines are installed in front of the homes. They have run lines up to some homes already, though they are not connected to the main line nor have any meters been installed. They are running 3/4" sch 40 PVC as the supply lines up to existing exterior faucets and plan to make the connection to the house there. I can't find the codes (Pasadena, Texas) and no one at the city will answer my questions, but I know the houses have 3/4 inch lines with 1/2 inch branch lines. Connecting a 3/4 " line to a 1/2 inch branch (exterior faucet line) cannot possibly supply the same amount of water and pressure as the original setup. I have a problem with using white PVC pipe being exposed up to the bib line as well. Besides freezing issues the UV rays will degrade it. Another issue is letting a laborer make an alteration to my home's plumbing system, no permit no license, etc. Seems they are all sorts of liability issues that city will deny under tort immunity. Am I making waves for nothing or are there problems with this? I've already gone head to head with them for trying to haul away excess dirt from the huge hole they dug after back filling without compacting it. There were at least 3 cubic yards left over from the huge hole they dug and they were trying to put it in a dump truck for haul away. I won that battle.
KAHR PM40/Hoffner IWB and S&W Mod 60/ Galco IWB
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
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Re: Any Plumbers out there? need advice.
I'm not a plumber, but the city will only accept responsibility for supply lines running to the meter. Everything beyond the meter is your responsibility. I would not allow unlicensed persons to connect the meter to my house (I think this is what you are saying). I would send them to the mayors house and tell them to start with that one.
I won't comment on the freezing thing except to say that the vast majority here in Houston have no idea what winter is really like! They buy a bucket full of styrofoam faucet covers for 30 minutes of 31 degree overnight weather. Where I came from, we didn't even think to turn any outside water on unless the daytime temperature got to 40 degrees.
I won't comment on the freezing thing except to say that the vast majority here in Houston have no idea what winter is really like! They buy a bucket full of styrofoam faucet covers for 30 minutes of 31 degree overnight weather. Where I came from, we didn't even think to turn any outside water on unless the daytime temperature got to 40 degrees.
"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk!
Eli Wallach on concealed carry while taking a bubble bath
Eli Wallach on concealed carry while taking a bubble bath
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Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 3
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- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:23 pm
- Location: Near San Jacinto
Re: Any Plumbers out there? need advice.
Supposedly someone passed out letters to the resident stating the contractor will be responsible for one year. This is a rent house and my tenants say they saw no such letter. One of my real concerns is the flow and pressure after tying into a 1/2" line to supply the house. These are very old houses (early 1950's and the piping I know has rust and calcium build-up. Now by reducing to a 1/2 inch line that's less than half the pipe size of a 3/4" if my geometry is not incorrect.ShootDontTalk wrote:I'm not a plumber, but the city will only accept responsibility for supply lines running to the meter. Everything beyond the meter is your responsibility. I would not allow unlicensed persons to connect the meter to my house (I think this is what you are saying). I would send them to the mayors house and tell them to start with that one.
I won't comment on the freezing thing except to say that the vast majority here in Houston have no idea what winter is really like! They buy a bucket full of styrofoam faucet covers for 30 minutes of 31 degree overnight weather. Where I came from, we didn't even think to turn any outside water on unless the daytime temperature got to 40 degrees.
KAHR PM40/Hoffner IWB and S&W Mod 60/ Galco IWB
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
Re: Any Plumbers out there? need advice.
Sounds like a "field-experient solution". Stick to your guns. If neccessary, pay a real plumber.
Alternately, there is a very good Google group for home repair that has some genuine experts posting.
Alternately, there is a very good Google group for home repair that has some genuine experts posting.
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“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
Re: Any Plumbers out there? need advice.
My son is a master plumber & I know that he must often run pvc in a manner that exposes it to UV - in fact I have a few drain lines that have been rerouted outside the exterior wall and have had no problems.puma guy wrote:he city is replacing the water lines with completely new system. the old main line, supply and meters were in the rear of the houses. The new lines are installed in front of the homes. They have run lines up to some homes already, though they are not connected to the main line nor have any meters been installed. They are running 3/4" sch 40 PVC as the supply lines up to existing exterior faucets and plan to make the connection to the house there. I can't find the codes (Pasadena, Texas) and no one at the city will answer my questions, but I know the houses have 3/4 inch lines with 1/2 inch branch lines. Connecting a 3/4 " line to a 1/2 inch branch (exterior faucet line) cannot possibly supply the same amount of water and pressure as the original setup. I have a problem with using white PVC pipe being exposed up to the bib line as well. Besides freezing issues the UV rays will degrade it. Another issue is letting a laborer make an alteration to my home's plumbing system, no permit no license, etc. Seems they are all sorts of liability issues that city will deny under tort immunity. Am I making waves for nothing or are there problems with this? I've already gone head to head with them for trying to haul away excess dirt from the huge hole they dug after back filling without compacting it. There were at least 3 cubic yards left over from the huge hole they dug and they were trying to put it in a dump truck for haul away. I won that battle.
Check the plastic and see exactly what the material actually is. CPVC, HDPE, PVC will give good service, though it probably will be schedule 40 PVC. (btw there is a product under different names such as PEX which is fast becoming the new standard. It is a cross linked plastic, easy to work with and is more durable then anything. In fact it is used in walls and ceilings.) If youre concern about UV damage wrap the plastic with Polyethlyene tape or put some vinyl paint on it.
If your house is circa 1950 it probably has 3/4 galvanized piping, and you can assume that due to calcification, the ID is down to least 1/2" at maximum.
My supply line from the meter is 1/2" copper to the house and I dont notice any pressure or volume problems.
I am certain the standards and specs for this project has been designed/approved & signed off by a PE. There is also an inspector. Im not sure about the fine points of the issue, but an apprentice/helper can do some plumbing tasks under the supervision of a master. I wouldnt be real concerned about the particulars of this upgrade.
The contractor will be happy to leave extra dirt it you ask for it.
“In the world of lies, truth-telling is a hanging offense"
~Unknown
~Unknown
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Topic author - Senior Member
- Posts in topic: 3
- Posts: 7625
- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:23 pm
- Location: Near San Jacinto
Re: Any Plumbers out there? need advice.
Thanks for the input. My residence had new water lines installed last year and PEX was used. The pipe being used here is standard 3/4" Schedule 40 PVC. They have only run it to a few homes - with a stand pipe to the existing outside bib faucets. I have spoken to two project overseers and neither have a clue what the code is though one had told the neighbor next door that black coiled pipe was to be used - I assume he meant PEX. That apparently is not true. I spoke with the Superintendent of Water yesterday face to face and he had to check if PVC was OK - he didn't know what the project called for. (must have missed that meeting) Regarding the dirt - if I hadn't been there yesterday they would have hauled it away. I was there last week when they dug the hole the first time. Let me put this in some perspective. This hole is 10-12 feet deep, 20-25 feet long and 5 feet wide. The ends are slight sloped but the sides are sheer. They had put soil back in the excavation and were about to start putting the "extra" dirt in a dump truck. About 3-4 yards. I spoke to the pusher last week (the supervisor was on vacation) to not remove the dirt when they excavated this week. They re-dug yesterday and I happened to be there waiting for the AC tech. The pusher I asked to make sure no dirt was hauled was driving the dump truck yesterday when I stopped them. So much for any requests. That's when I got the City Supt involved and he had them put all the dirt back on my tree lawn. Initially they just pushed it back haphazardly so I had the Supt tell them to compact and form it. Many of the other homes had the soil taken away including my brother who lives in the neighborhood, so they will be many sink holes in a few month's time. In my brother's case today the were re-digging the third time. Unfortunately no one is overseeing this as evidenced by the un-shored excavations which I pointed out. They just shrugged their shoulders. Is your home in an area that doesn't require inspections? I think UPC 2003 requires 3/4 inch line to a residence.Jim Beaux wrote:My son is a master plumber & I know that he must often run pvc in a manner that exposes it to UV - in fact I have a few drain lines that have been rerouted outside the exterior wall and have had no problems.puma guy wrote:he city is replacing the water lines with completely new system. the old main line, supply and meters were in the rear of the houses. The new lines are installed in front of the homes. They have run lines up to some homes already, though they are not connected to the main line nor have any meters been installed. They are running 3/4" sch 40 PVC as the supply lines up to existing exterior faucets and plan to make the connection to the house there. I can't find the codes (Pasadena, Texas) and no one at the city will answer my questions, but I know the houses have 3/4 inch lines with 1/2 inch branch lines. Connecting a 3/4 " line to a 1/2 inch branch (exterior faucet line) cannot possibly supply the same amount of water and pressure as the original setup. I have a problem with using white PVC pipe being exposed up to the bib line as well. Besides freezing issues the UV rays will degrade it. Another issue is letting a laborer make an alteration to my home's plumbing system, no permit no license, etc. Seems they are all sorts of liability issues that city will deny under tort immunity. Am I making waves for nothing or are there problems with this? I've already gone head to head with them for trying to haul away excess dirt from the huge hole they dug after back filling without compacting it. There were at least 3 cubic yards left over from the huge hole they dug and they were trying to put it in a dump truck for haul away. I won that battle.
Check the plastic and see exactly what the material actually is. CPVC, HDPE, PVC will give good service, though it probably will be schedule 40 PVC. (btw there is a product under different names such as PEX which is fast becoming the new standard. It is a cross linked plastic, easy to work with and is more durable then anything. In fact it is used in walls and ceilings.) If youre concern about UV damage wrap the plastic with Polyethlyene tape or put some vinyl paint on it.
If your house is circa 1950 it probably has 3/4 galvanized piping, and you can assume that due to calcification, the ID is down to least 1/2" at minimum.
My supply line from the meter is 1/2" copper to the house and I dont notice any pressure or volume problems.
I am certain the standards and specs for this project has been designed/approved & signed off by a PE. There is also an inspector. Im not sure about the fine points of the issue, but an apprentice/helper can do some plumbing tasks under the supervision of a master. I wouldnt be real concerned about the particulars of this upgrade.
The contractor will be happy to leave extra dirt it you ask for it.
KAHR PM40/Hoffner IWB and S&W Mod 60/ Galco IWB
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
NRA Endowment Member, TSRA Life Member,100 Club Life Member,TFC Member
My Faith, My Gun and My Constitution: I cling to all three!
Re: Any Plumbers out there? need advice.
***SNIP***
They replaced our clay pipe sewer mains a few years ago using a technique called "Pipe Bursting". Neat, clean, fast & no trenching. They could do a residential block at a time. Check it out on youtube.
That's criminal if they put men in a 10-12' hole without adequate sloping or shoring. I cringed just reading it.
Coiled black pipe is probably HDPE, good stuff as it is being used for pipelines.puma guy wrote: Thanks for the input. My residence had new water lines installed last year and PEX was used. The pipe being used here is standard 3/4" Schedule 40 PVC. They have only run it to a few homes - with a stand pipe to the existing outside bib faucets. I have spoken to two project overseers and neither have a clue what the code is though one had told the neighbor next door that black coiled pipe was to be used - I assume he meant PEX. That apparently is not true. I spoke with the Superintendent of Water yesterday face to face and he had to check if PVC was OK - he didn't know what the project called for. (must have missed that meeting) Regarding the dirt - if I hadn't been there yesterday they would have hauled it away. I was there last week when they dug the hole the first time. Let me put this in some perspective. This hole is 10-12 feet deep, 20-25 feet long and 5 feet wide. The ends are slight sloped but the sides are sheer. They had put soil back in the excavation and were about to start putting the "extra" dirt in a dump truck. About 3-4 yards. I spoke to the pusher last week (the supervisor was on vacation) to not remove the dirt when they excavated this week. They re-dug yesterday and I happened to be there waiting for the AC tech. The pusher I asked to make sure no dirt was hauled was driving the dump truck yesterday when I stopped them. So much for any requests. That's when I got the City Supt involved and he had them put all the dirt back on my tree lawn. Initially they just pushed it back haphazardly so I had the Supt tell them to compact and form it. Many of the other homes had the soil taken away including my brother who lives in the neighborhood, so they will be many sink holes in a few month's time. In my brother's case today the were re-digging the third time. Unfortunately no one is overseeing this as evidenced by the un-shored excavations which I pointed out. They just shrugged their shoulders. Is your home in an area that doesn't require inspections? I think UPC 2003 requires 3/4 inch line to a residence.
They replaced our clay pipe sewer mains a few years ago using a technique called "Pipe Bursting". Neat, clean, fast & no trenching. They could do a residential block at a time. Check it out on youtube.
That's criminal if they put men in a 10-12' hole without adequate sloping or shoring. I cringed just reading it.
“In the world of lies, truth-telling is a hanging offense"
~Unknown
~Unknown
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Re: Any Plumbers out there? need advice.
PVC degrades in UV. By code the connection from the ground to the copper should be covered in some sort of insulated wrap. Anything sticking through roof jacks should be painted.
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