A dog bite

[loktite]

Saturday, my best friend brought his family out to the property to "get them out of the house" while he and I were to work on the outboard motor of his boat I've been storing here (boat hasn't been run in at least 9 years). I had them park on our gravel driveway in shade, 30-50 yds away from garage. We have a large german shepard who is a guard dog for the house. He stays on an electric collar 99% of the time, with his perimeter basically ending 5 feet past garage.

So when they arrived, I took him off the collar away from his protect zone so he could see them up close and wouldn't be barking at the "unknown" intruders the whole time. I then instructed everyone to head down the hill, and not come up to the house, put him back on collar at house and changed clothes.

After some time my elderly mom and best friend awoke from their nap and had come out to walk her friend;s two little dogs. I guess they came back out to visit, at which point my best friends wife apparently asked to take their youngest little girl to the bathroom.

Here's where it gets ugly... in heading to the house, my mom's best friend is chatting with the wife's oldest daughter (of my best friend, I'm single), and the wife is just in front and to the left, also conversing. From the description I got from my mom's best friend, it sounds like in this moment, the youngest daughter of the wife is ahead of the group by 3-5 yds, goes to pet the german shepard (who is now in his defend territory). He thinks for a second, then decides this is a hostile act by this strange child, barely nips her chin, but she raises her arm (naturally defend reaction) and he takes a chunk out at the crook of the elbow.

Hospital report -- its only "meat" bite, she has full articulation of the hand. Required 4 LARGE stitches to allow for drainage.

Now again this is my best friend's family, I love them all dearly (wife included)..... but for the life of me I cannot understand how the mother could be so negligent in letting her daughter get ahead of her in that situation. In assessing the situation, I would place 80-90% of the blame on her (negligence), and split the remainder equally between myself and my best friend (who knows the dog well enough from previous encounters that he defends his zone) for not hammering home NOT TO GO NEAR THE DOG near the house unless I'm between them. He should have done some immediately after I took the dog.

The wife and kids weren't even supposed to be around that long, there were only gonna stay for and hour or 2 and then leave my best friend to be driven home later by his brother. so frustrating....
The wait for the hospital report from the parents was gutwrenching for me as well, had visions of some long reconstructive surgery for bicep/tendons in forearm.

Obviously my dog is now in mandatory quarantine for 10 days, and will have to pay boarding fees.

Here's where I'm looking for input. My mom seems to think we are at fault as far as any insurance is concerned regardless of the circumstances (because it's our dog), and that as a result our insurance premiums will sky rocket. My thoughts are we should possibly pay his deductible, but should we really be moving to pay all costs cash? Our income is basically split between interest from trust fund (fathers insurance) and her social security. Funds are quite tight otherwise, and she will be having to pull out of said trust fund for this.

I guess the thing that gets me the most is this.... how on God's green earth do you ever let your child get close to a large dog (German shepard guard dog no less) without direct approval/supervision from the owner/caretaker is beyond me.


ETA: I consider this closed now and appreciate all input given. I needed to vent my frustrations and have gotten the constructive feedback I was looking for. Thank you all. I have changed the title.

[mojo84]

Not giving legal or insurance advice here, just some suggestions to consider.

Notify your homeowners insurance company immediately. Let the adjuster help sort it out. They typically will go ahead and pay under med pay or liabilty is there is not an animal exclusion. I would recommend not getting into who's fault is it argument with your friends. This is what insurance is for and they've handled many such claims. Without offering up any admission of liability, I would offer my sympathies for the bite and be empathetic to the parents and little girl. Arguing over fault and who is responsible will only escalate the damage and harm the frienship. Of someone has to choose between a friend and his dog and his daughter, the daughter will win and you and your insurance company will pay more.

Also, be aware, the insurance company will be concerned about your dog going forward. They may or may not renew your coverage.

[loktite]

I completely concur with discussing who's fault it is with my friends. The welfare of the little girl (whom I consider a niece) and my friendship is far more important that at fault between us.

[PBR]

Just wondering did you have the dog when you got insurance policy? I know on my dogs I had to sign a release form saying that I'm responsible personally in anything involving the dogs. I had to sign that form or they would not insurance the house. It's been a long time ago but It was a hassle having what some consider a threat dog. They might want you to sign one now though if didn't have one before. I hope everything works out and the young girl isn't scarred by the ordeal and afraid of dogs forever.

[RPBrown]

IMHO and IANAL, but I think yes you are responsible. You do not say how old the child is but I am assuming pretty young. Yes, she should have been better supervised, but again the access is still there. Although you have an electric fence for your dog, the child or any of the visitors have anything to prevent them from going past the bounderies

I have large dogs that also guard their territory and will attack if I or one of my family members are not around. When we have company, I will put the dogs up in their room (yes, they have their own room) or keep them by my side and leashed until the visitors have left.

Now, some will say it is the dog's yard also and although I agree, the visitors are there with your permission and again, there is no restraint to keep a person from going past his "area"

Sorry man, just my .02.

And prayers sent for healing of the child as well.

[loktite]

Aye, she is 4 years old. FWIW, we live in rural on 65 acres. I don't know about the dog & homeowners insurance relationship ATM, should find out more later today.

[C-dub]

Not giving legal or insurance advice here, just some suggestions to consider.

Notify your homeowners insurance company immediately. Let the adjuster help sort it out. They typically will go ahead and pay under med pay or liabilty is there is not an animal exclusion. I would recommend not getting into who's fault is it argument with your friends. This is what insurance is for and they've handled many such claims. Without offering up any admission of liability, I would offer my sympathies for the bite and be empathetic to the parents and little girl. Arguing over fault and who is responsible will only escalate the damage and harm the frienship. Of someone has to choose between a friend and his dog and his daughter, the daughter will win and you and your insurance company will pay more.

Also, be aware, the insurance company will be concerned about your dog going forward. They may or may not renew your coverage.

However, as an owner of GSDs myself and Rotties in the past and having trained dogs for protection and obedience for many many years, I place the blame for this squarely at your feet. You know you have a dangerous dog and failed to completely control the situation and secure the dog in a crate or other enclosure so that this could not happen. The actions of a dog or a child cannot be completely predicted nor relied upon and the two are drawn to one another. You can blame the child's mother all you want, but the dog was your responsibility. And if I read you correctly, the only thing keeping your dog in his area was an e-collar with a perimeter wire that activates the collar when it gets close to this wire or far enough away from something? I have seen many dogs of many different breeds run right through something like that and just ignore the collar when their drive/desire was higher for the object/child/animal than the punishment the collar delivered.

Before you get completely furious with me, I'm very sorry this happened at all. I'm sorry for you and I'm sorry for the little girl and her family. I really am! This is a horrible thing to go through for everyone for many different reasons. And I'm sorry for your dog. I hope you get him back. Thankfully, the girl was not severely physically harmed. However, I also fear that she may fear any dog or any large dog or maybe just GSDs for the rest of her life. Her psychological damage might be the worst result of this incident.

[loktite]

@ C-dub -- Not furious at all. The dog does not act aggressively past his boundary when off the collar (obviously under supervision), and he NEVER chases someone out of the range (IE deliveries are dropped off at edge of gravel, about 20 feet from garage). I have to concur that ultimately it is my responsibility after reading a few posts and thinking on it. BUT... Keep in mind my setup for them was to be NOWHERE near the house. The father (my best friend and I) were in the "shed" (large barn holds horse & utility trailers, tractor, hay bales, tools, etc) working on the motor when this occurred. Never in my wildest did I figure they would go to the house without checking with me first. So I guess technically one could say it's a bit more on my mother/her friend for allowing what I forbade at the onset of the visit -- THEY (my mom and her friend) should have gone in front and put him on the chain / directly handled him. But that's all semantics I suppose. I appreciate your input C-dub. side note: the perimeter is established by radio signal not a wire. He didn't cross this boundary and wouldn't have done anything without growling/barking first, IF she hadn't initiated contact.

[loktite]

Me personally regardless of what side i was on and this may not be p.c. but the dog wouldnt be around anymore to say the least

I hope you don't really understand the situation then to make this comment. He was in his approved zone as a house defender.

[steveincowtown]

I guess I am in the minority, but I would not contact your insurance company.

Sounds like they have health insurance and the odds your total out of pocket to them being over 1% (standard deductible) of your property value is probably slim.

Once you report the incident, most insurance companies will ding you whether or not they pay anything out. As a bonus, they may choose not to renew your policy as well.

[loktite]

I guess I am in the minority, but I would not contact your insurance company.

Sounds like they have health insurance and the odds your total out of pocket to them being over 1% (standard deductible) of your property value is probably slim.

Once you report the incident, most insurance companies will ding you whether or not they pay anything out. As a bonus, they may choose not to renew your policy as well.

Please elaborate : are you suggesting that their insurance will contact us directly, and not go to our homeowners first?

ETA: A note has already been dropped with the homeowners about the situation, and was left that we did not wish to pursue it with them.

[C-dub]

@ C-dub -- Not furious at all. The dog does not act aggressively past his boundary when off the collar (obviously under supervision), and he NEVER chases someone out of the range (IE deliveries are dropped off at edge of gravel, about 20 feet from garage). I have to concur that ultimately it is my responsibility after reading a few posts and thinking on it. BUT... Keep in mind my setup for them was to be NOWHERE near the house. The father (my best friend and I) were in the "shed" (large barn holds horse & utility trailers, tractor, hay bales, tools, etc) working on the motor when this occurred. Never in my wildest did I figure they would go to the house without checking with me first. So I guess technically one could say it's a bit more on my mother/her friend for allowing what I forbade at the onset of the visit -- THEY (my mom and her friend) should have gone in front and put him on the chain / directly handled him. But that's all semantics I suppose. I appreciate your input C-dub. side note: the perimeter is established by radio signal not a wire. He didn't cross this boundary and wouldn't have done anything without growling/barking first, IF she hadn't initiated contact.

I do hope you all, dog included, get through this okay. I do understand and had a similar incident with my best friend years ago. My best friend was coming over to help me with something and while I drove my truck around to the alley way to drive into our back yard to pick up some things to take to the dump, my wife was going to let him into the backyard to open the large gate. I forgot that he and my GSD had never met before and figured that since my friend was being let into the yard by my wife and not actually intruding that there would not be a problem. It wasn't until our 3y old daughter came out. The dog must have thought something was wrong with this "strange" man being too close to her and backed him off. Nothing bad so far, but my friend went to swat or push the dog away and my dog got him. Nothing major, just a nip as more of a warning, but I was used to such things because of all the training I'd done. However, my insensitivity regarding what was nothing to me towards my friend's reaction took it's toll. Having a large fearless dog come at him like that was traumatic for him. Not even one stitch was needed. This was just a warning from the dog and if my friend had not raised his hand to him he might not have even gotten nipped. This was a trained and titled dog and it was all my fault.

[mojo84]

I guess I am in the minority, but I would not contact your insurance company.

Sounds like they have health insurance and the odds your total out of pocket to them being over 1% (standard deductible) of your property value is probably slim.

Once you report the incident, most insurance companies will ding you whether or not they pay anything out. As a bonus, they may choose not to renew your policy as well.

A couple things, deductibles seldom if ever apply to liability claims and once the health insurance company finds out it was a dog bite from someone else's dog and they have homeowners insurance, they will subrogate against the dog owner and their insurance carrier. Then the homeowners insurance carrier can claim the insured did not fulfill their notice of claim obligations under the insurance contract. Most insurance companies take the position they can mitigate the damages the sooner they are notified. Not notifying them could give them a basis to deny any claim for damages or defense.

The possibility of them nonrenewing is just a possible consequence that results from allowing a dog to bite a child. Worse things can happen than a ninrenewal.

Not attacking you personally but your advice or plan is very poor.

[steveincowtown]

I guess I am in the minority, but I would not contact your insurance company.

Sounds like they have health insurance and the odds your total out of pocket to them being over 1% (standard deductible) of your property value is probably slim.

Once you report the incident, most insurance companies will ding you whether or not they pay anything out. As a bonus, they may choose not to renew your policy as well.

Please elaborate : are you suggesting that their insurance will contact us directly, and not go to our homeowners first?

Did they already contact their insurance company?

IMHO you have zero to gain by getting the insurance company involved, UNLESS you think that you out of pocket is going to be much greater than you deductible.

I had an incident happen on my property, and being the good guy I am contacted my Insurance company immediately. In the end, the person hurt had excellent health insurance and it only ended up being a couple of hundred out of pocket. My insurance company paid out exactly $0, but due to the incident still raised my rates when I renewed. Also, I tried to shop them, and due to the fact I had an incident reported, no one else wanted to give me a reasonable rate.


*YMMV.