Situational Awareness

[LSUTiger]

Skip to 2:21 for the Situational Awareness story.

and starting at 14:53 worth the listen and at 15:44 don't miss the timeless words of advice. If you don't watch the video, at least watch at 15:44

[Glockster]

Well, that's 19:02 of my day that I won't get back. SOME interesting points about SA that I bet a lot of us here know well, but I have to say that he lost me when he first started describing the scenario and that the guy he was looking at buying wood from was not forthcoming about an address or specific location. So given his mad SA skills, I don't understand why he then allowed himself to be put into a situation that then became much more likely to be very dangerous. I myself would have long since bailed (like after the guy in the initial phone call couldn't give any address). But IMHO, it was not that smart for him to have continued on even after he said that he was very carefully documenting his turns, you know, in case he turned up dead and they found his phone. He smelled a potentially very bad situation and yet thought that he'd play it out to see where it would lead. So he'd be a very SA dead dude. Again, not sure why he went anywhere near as far as he did as they were clearly playing him over saving an amount of money that according to him, just seemed to be a really good, really unusually good deal. Isn't that exactly how someone like the probable bad guys play things? Seems that the old "if it sounds too good to be true, it isn't" would have saved about 14 minutes of video and more importantly not put him in a clearly dangerous situation.

[LSUTiger]

Well, that's 19:02 of my day that I won't get back. SOME interesting points about SA that I bet a lot of us here know well, but I have to say that he lost me when he first started describing the scenario and that the guy he was looking at buying wood from was not forthcoming about an address or specific location. So given his mad SA skills, I don't understand why he then allowed himself to be put into a situation that then became much more likely to be very dangerous. I myself would have long since bailed (like after the guy in the initial phone call couldn't give any address). But IMHO, it was not that smart for him to have continued on even after he said that he was very carefully documenting his turns, you know, in case he turned up dead and they found his phone. He smelled a potentially very bad situation and yet thought that he'd play it out to see where it would lead. So he'd be a very SA dead dude. Again, not sure why he went anywhere near as far as he did as they were clearly playing him over saving an amount of money that according to him, just seemed to be a really good, really unusually good deal. Isn't that exactly how someone like the probable bad guys play things? Seems that the old "if it sounds too good to be true, it isn't" would have saved about 14 minutes of video and more importantly not put him in a clearly dangerous situation.

It's applicable to CC. It was more for newbies and even a those who still don't fully grasp the concept situational awareness (Not including sheeple, I encounter them occasionally). Also, even though I heard it before, advice @15:44 is a classic.

I can only speculate how his LEO experience led him to recognize a potentially bad situation but not overreact, then recognize at some point it's time to bail out. Even with SA, if things are not immediately clear, I sometimes let things develop from plausible to when that threshold is reached when it's time to act. Different people balance SA vs Overeaction differently.

As he stated in the video, he had experience buying wood before and sometimes to get a good deal you have to load the wood yourself. Maybe it was so cheap because you had to drive to the middle of nowhere to get it yourself. Maybe the guys has this property where he gets the wood from but it's remote and not on a map so it's hard to give an address, hence the need to follow him.

I have a piece of undeveloped property that is in the middle of other parcels of undeveloped property and only accessible by a dirt road. I know where it is, it's surveyed, has GPS coordinates, but does not have an address. So IMHO there's a bit of plausibility to the situation, until the other cars start to follow and still not having arrived at the place, then a threshold is reached. So I don't think he is as off base as he might seem to you. It's still a good illustration of how to interpret a situation I thought. Just my 2cents.

[MONGOOSE]

My CHL instructor did a survey of folks walking out of Wal Mart and Home Depot.......amazing how many just walk with their head down and stare at the asphalt.

[Glockster]

Well, that's 19:02 of my day that I won't get back. SOME interesting points about SA that I bet a lot of us here know well, but I have to say that he lost me when he first started describing the scenario and that the guy he was looking at buying wood from was not forthcoming about an address or specific location. So given his mad SA skills, I don't understand why he then allowed himself to be put into a situation that then became much more likely to be very dangerous. I myself would have long since bailed (like after the guy in the initial phone call couldn't give any address). But IMHO, it was not that smart for him to have continued on even after he said that he was very carefully documenting his turns, you know, in case he turned up dead and they found his phone. He smelled a potentially very bad situation and yet thought that he'd play it out to see where it would lead. So he'd be a very SA dead dude. Again, not sure why he went anywhere near as far as he did as they were clearly playing him over saving an amount of money that according to him, just seemed to be a really good, really unusually good deal. Isn't that exactly how someone like the probable bad guys play things? Seems that the old "if it sounds too good to be true, it isn't" would have saved about 14 minutes of video and more importantly not put him in a clearly dangerous situation.

It's applicable to CC. It was more for newbies and even a those who still don't fully grasp the concept situational awareness (Not including sheeple, I encounter them occasionally). Also, even though I heard it before, advice @15:44 is a classic.

I can only speculate how his LEO experience led him to recognize a potentially bad situation but not overreact, then recognize at some point it's time to bail out. Even with SA, if things are not immediately clear, I sometimes let things develop from plausible to when that threshold is reached when it's time to act. Different people balance SA vs Overeaction differently.

As he stated in the video, he had experience buying wood before and sometimes to get a good deal you have to load the wood yourself. Maybe it was so cheap because you had to drive to the middle of nowhere to get it yourself. Maybe the guys has this property where he gets the wood from but it's remote and not on a map so it's hard to give an address, hence the need to follow him.

I have a piece of undeveloped property that is in the middle of other parcels of undeveloped property and only accessible by a dirt road. I know where it is, it's surveyed, has GPS coordinates, but does not have an address. So IMHO there's a bit of plausibility to the situation, until the other cars start to follow and still not having arrived at the place, then a threshold is reached. So I don't think he is as off base as he might seem to you. It's still a good illustration of how to interpret a situation I thought. Just my 2cents.

Fair, if that's your level of SA.

But to play devil's advocate -- with your property, if you were selling wood on CL...knowing that you'd get called by someone who would want to come to where the wood is....what would your reply have been?

My threshold is apparently much lower.

Case in point where recently my partner found a CL posting for a condo for rent where we wanted to stay for a couple of days. My first, second and third reaction was that the price was too good to be true and that it was likely a scam. She thought no, maybe it's just some nice couple. So she contacted and in reply was told that payment would only be accepted via WesternUnion...and isn't that strange she thought. I said, scam based on what happens all the time. She said well, let me contact them and see. So she replied to ask about the payment, and couldn't it be either cash or PayPal. Reply was no cash, couldn't/wouldn't agree to meet us at the door of the condo for the payment/key turn-over...agreed to PayPal. I said scam. She said no, I'm too SA. I then looked up the phone number, traced to a cell in Ohio. I said scam. She said, well, maybe they're not locals. So I did a Google image search and found it showing up on an actual property manager site, called and they confirmed that they DO NOT EVER list on CL. Ever. And then found a posting in the same city, listing several ongoing scams and this property was listed. Scam.

My SA threshold level is right where I'd like it. Someone else's actual mileage may vary.

[LSUTiger]

But to play devil's advocate -- with your property, if you were selling wood on CL...knowing that you'd get called by someone who would want to come to where the wood is....what would your reply have been?

My reply would have been:

"The wood is out on my property in the middle of nowhere accessible only by a dirt road, it has no address. I can give you GPS coordinates or meet you at the nearest gas station and you can follow me there or I can try to give you some convoluted directions that will just get you lost on a maze of backcountry roads that I barely know where I am.

The wood is so cheap because it's a bit of drive and you have to load it up yourself. If you want me to bring it to you and load it too it will cost more."

Being SA and suspicious, I think there are two kinds of people who make my alarm bells go off, 99% sheeple who are unorganized/uneducated/unaware/not having their stuff together and are not good communicators who are oblivious to the fact that not giving or being able to give details and making people feel comfortable can lead the SA to have cause for concern and the 1% criminal who are aware that not giving details to the sheeple will lure them into a situation they are unaware of.

[Glockster]

I'm not sure that I buy the no address. It is real estate. It has a record somewhere. And that means that it has an address somewhere, even if it is just a designation on a plat. At least as far as I know all property here in the U.S. can be found on a plat of some kind, and that will contain some sort of an address reference. If nothing else, I think that the NA Fire Code requires it for property identification.

But okay since I brought up plats, I'll "raise you" a well, would you have placed a map on your CL ad? If so, how did you place the map on your CL ad, as to do that required that you put in some sort of an address. And clearly some folks may not put their exact location on the map, just close, but there are maps. For me, every CL ad that I've ever purchased from had the map. No map, not interested.

[The Annoyed Man]

So given his mad SA skills, I don't understand why he then allowed himself to be put into a situation that then became much more likely to be very dangerous...

...........

Seems that the old "if it sounds too good to be true, it isn't" would have saved about 14 minutes of video and more importantly not put him in a clearly dangerous situation.

That's what I got out of it.

[Glockster]

Yup.

[LSUTiger]

I'm not sure that I buy the no address. It is real estate. It has a record somewhere. And that means that it has an address somewhere, even if it is just a designation on a plat. At least as far as I know all property here in the U.S. can be found on a plat of some kind, and that will contain some sort of an address reference. If nothing else, I think that the NA Fire Code requires it for property identification.

But okay since I brought up plats, I'll "raise you" a well, would you have placed a map on your CL ad? If so, how did you place the map on your CL ad, as to do that required that you put in some sort of an address. And clearly some folks may not put their exact location on the map, just close, but there are maps. For me, every CL ad that I've ever purchased from had the map. No map, not interested.

how many people post guns for sale on this very forum without pics? some do. it's not because they are trying to kill, trick or deceive you but because they simply don't know how to post a pic. some can barely log on and post a comment

I'm pretty good with computers but just opened a Facebook account and I'm still trying to figure out all the features so i am reminded how i can post things but not always know who can see it so i can open an account post things but that doesn't make me a Facebook expert

so now the sellers will marginal skills have to create a map that they don't know how to upload to cl and add to their ad. it's a good idea but not always a sign of bad intent but agree it does raise suspicion sometimes
it goes back to what i stated before the sheeple out of ignorance vs criminal out of intent

please educate is with your vast knowledge of real estate

AFAIK, until a parcel of land is subdivided into neighborhoods/streets for development by county or parish or at request of developer you might not have street address besides a property id #, survey info, GPS/GIS info. But I'm not expert. I can only speak to my own experience.

[Glockster]

I wasn't talking about selling guns here, and neither was the guy in the video. It was CL. When you create an ad it has field entry for any address info. You don't "have" to create anything or upload a map. It does that.

[Middle Age Russ]

The situational awareness toolbox (general awareness/alertness, risk assessment, options consideration and implementation) is just that. It is a set of tools that can and will be used differently by different people according to their perceived physical abilities, tolerance for risk, etc... As I have grown older my physical abilities have changed as well as my tolerance for risk, resulting in consideration and implementation of different options than I would have pursued previously in some cases. If he doesn't needlessly put his life at risk one too many times, the subject of this thread is likely to also have an evolving perspective on choices involving risk. Life is a journey, and previous experience coupled with situational awareness helps us down our path.

[Glockster]

My point originally was that I thought that the guy in the video took risks that he shouldn't have taken, and that I certainly wouldn't have taken as the whole fire wood for sale thing smelled from the very first contact that he had. I am quite fond of SA. I'm just not impressed with someone who does what he did, and then essentially brags about it. Again, a good example was him saying that he was documenting directions on his phone in case he turned up dead. I intend to not allow for myself to get into a position where I feel the need to do that. He chased after a "good deal" in fire wood, playing directly into the hands of the bad guys who looked for someone like him. Not impressive for a supposed ex-LEO.

[Middle Age Russ]

Situational awareness allows us to minimize risks or at least mitigate them. Whether or where we choose to minimize/mitigate risks is still a personal decision each of us makes. I agree that the subject of your post took what I would deem bad, or not risk-averse, decisions -- and that a predisposition toward such decisions is more likely to shorten a life-span than lengthen it. To me, "good", or risk-averse, situational awareness habits don't make for very compelling video since the most significant risks are avoided or mitigated before there is a serious issue. I don't know what the real intent of this video really is, but if it is to be a lesson of sorts it could clearly be scripted or portrayed in a way that doesn't make the viewer question the reasonableness of the actor.

[Glockster]

Situational awareness allows us to minimize risks or at least mitigate them. Whether or where we choose to minimize/mitigate risks is still a personal decision each of us makes. I agree that the subject of your post took what I would deem bad, or not risk-averse, decisions -- and that a predisposition toward such decisions is more likely to shorten a life-span than lengthen it. To me, "good", or risk-averse, situational awareness habits don't make for very compelling video since the most significant risks are avoided or mitigated before there is a serious issue. I don't know what the real intent of this video really is, but if it is to be a lesson of sorts it could clearly be scripted or portrayed in a way that doesn't make the viewer question the reasonableness of the actor.

I think that you and I are in agreement....and just to make sure you know...this isn't my thread .