I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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JustSomeOldGuy
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I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by JustSomeOldGuy »

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vjallen75
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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by vjallen75 »

This is interesting, thanks for sharing the article. Even more reason to talk the wife into letting me get a better flashlight :thumbs2:
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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by Liberty »

While I always have a small ultrabright flashlight on me. but I always thought it was of limited use for personal self-defense. I don't go out much at night and these old eyes still have pretty good night vision. I figure in my own house where I know every nook and cranny that darkness is my friend. Shining a flashlight would not only tip off my location but also make the perp aware that I knew where he was. I don't really care if the perp is armed or not, he doesn't belong in my house and if it's dark he is looking to get some perforations.

Going outside in my backyard is a different story, I would depend on some pretty big lights and wouldn't mind scaring him off if it avoids a confrontation and loud noises. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, I don't know but I tend to think that in familiar surroundings that darkness is an advantage and that in my own home shooting an unarmed invader at night isn't all that bad of a thing.
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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by carlson1 »

I carry a SureFire E2 all the time. I also have a SureFire XC1 that works great on my Glock 19 (Not crazy about weapon mounted lights). My EDC is a 1911 and it does not have a rail. I find I use my light and knife a lot more than I ever thought I would.
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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by vjallen75 »

carlson1 wrote:I carry a SureFire E2 all the time. I also have a SureFire XC1 that works great on my Glock 19 (Not crazy about weapon mounted lights). My EDC is a 1911 and it does not have a rail. I find I use my light and knife a lot more than I ever thought I would.
I have always carried a knife with me. You never know how useful one is until you don't have it and you need one.

I used mine a lot more than I thought I ever wood. I also never thought I'd use the carry holster that came with the one my wife got me last year for a wedding present. I put my knife on before my gun.
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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by bblhd672 »

My wife has night lights all over the house, the back yard is lit by a LED dusk to dawn light and front yard by street light. All that to say I don't need any kind of flashlight inside the house if dealing with intruders. I do however have several handy if necessary during power outage.
Also daily carry a Thrunite Ti3, in additon to a usb-rechargeable LED light on my keychain.
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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by bmwrdr »

I think regular training in dark conditions would be the best way to approach the problem.
I had a complete loss of my eyesjght in 2012 due to West nile Virus and all the side effects including meningitis and encyphalitis. My eyesight gradually returned to an adequate level in one eye and I still see improvements.
Good nutrition, in particular a variety of vegetables and not to smoke is a sure way to improve the humans eyesight.
In addition there are several procedures like sunning with closed eyes, palming and the use of a small powered blinking light several days a week will help too.
For the person with good eyesight I'd suggest to exercise in complete darkness to a) use the tactical advantage of darkness and b) to gain control over the own body movement in complete darkness.
For example, the munchs in Nepal for instance cover their eyes for a whole year in their live to hone the other senses, in particular their hearing.

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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by Pawpaw »

If I'm dressed, I have a Fenix PD35 (950 lumens) flashlight in my pocket. On my home defense shotgun, I have a Streamlight TLR1-HL (800 lumens) light.

I may not need either one to see inside my house, but I guarantee an intruder won't be able to look my direction when I fire one up. If he is armed, he won't be able to aim. I, on the other hand, will.
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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by Alf »

It's an interesting article but Liberty makes a good point about ROE. If a stranger is in my house in the middle of the night, my presumption that deadly force is appropriate is enshrined in the Texas penal code. In the case of street crime, illumination is often useful to see and avoid problems. However, once somebody is trying to rob me, they have self-identified as a threat and a reasonable man can proceed accordingly.

Police who are looking for trouble after dark have different needs than a LTC looking to avoid trouble.
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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

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Post by Skiprr »

Pawpaw wrote:I may not need either one to see inside my house, but I guarantee an intruder won't be able to look my direction when I fire one up. If he is armed, he won't be able to aim. I, on the other hand, will.
This is a very valid point. But an adequate light is a force-multiplier. That presumes enough candle power to temporarily blind or disorient a target.

Even in my own home, if something creaks too loudly at oh-two-hundred I want a nice, bright, tail-switch activated, momentary-on light with me. It may or may not be a target I want to shoot. I need to absolutely, positively confirm that before I pull a trigger.

And the shadowy figure may have an 800 lumen light of his own. If he flashes me and robs me of my night vision, I don't want to blindly spray-and-pray and empty a magazine into the room. Better off to blind him back and get outta there.

A corollary: if a flash of light has diminished your night vision, adaptation back to low-light takes time, as we all know. Even if he doesn't have a strong flashlight himself, he may be moving in front of a window at the exact moment a car pours a healthy dose of headlight into your eyes. Expect the unexpected. If your night vision is compromised and you don't have a powerful light in hand, you might find yourself in a--ahem--challenging position.

My training has always been:
  • Illuminate
  • Identify
  • Deluminate
  • Move
  • Shoot
Yep. Do not shoot while the target is illuminated: just like you would in full light, move off the "X" first, then shoot. Much for that reason, like Carlson, I've never been a fan of weapon-mounted lights on handguns. Don't own one.

The small on-board lights are generally not powerful enough to be effective as a force-multiplier; momentary-on activation usually requires a fine level of manual dexterity that may go right out the window once adrenaline starts pumping; and it leaves you with no choice but to have the muzzle of your gun inexorably linked to the light source...wherever your light source is, there's your gun and gun hand. And did I mention that in gunfights, injuries to arms are extremely common? (You can prove this in force-on-force training, and it makes sense: constraints to your senses are going to clamp down, including tunnel vision...if shots are exchanged, you're going to see the gun that's firing, maybe less so the CoM you should be watching.)

There are several common handheld flashlight techniques and, while they each have their place, I admit that I only practice two: Harries' and the so-called FBI technique.

I've seen Harries' dissed by some instructors, but I've never bought the rationale. I think much of it stems from the modern isosceles stance taught mainly as a competitive shooting stance. If you shoot full-on perpendicular isosceles, the Harries' technique is going to feel distinctly unnatural and require gray-matter cycles that can't be spared under stress. I've also seen some instructors say that because Harries' requires simultaneous use of both hands, that it can't be performed under stress...as if the Graham, Chapman, Rogers or other techniques don't also require your brain to activate use of both hands. Which you do all day every day. :???: In fact, I'll posit that the isometric tension required between the backs of both hands actually improves synergistic use of light and gun. Can't prove it, but IMHO.

I've also never been a fan of teaching the full isosceles as a useful defensive stance; but that's neither here nor there. A modified isosceles can adapt to Harries', and a modified Weaver even better. Harries' was just natural to me from day one. Gotta be done correctly, though; burns me when I see actors on-screen doing it atrociously, after probably being told only, "Rest this wrist on top of the other one."

The FBI technique should probably be called FIFE: Flash It From Elsewhere.

No support for the gunhand: you just take the flashlight in an "ice pick" grip, thumb on endcap switch, and stick it out somewhere you ain't. I love this less for general use, but if having to clear a room in low-light from a tight, residential hallway, it definitely has its purpose. Even if you're surprised by a flash in your own eyes, getting your responding flash off the "X" has merit. If all the bad guy sees is a bright light almost a yard from where your heart or head is...not bad.

Carry a high-lumen, high-quality flashlight. Don't skimp on a cheap one.

I've only commented about Abraham's situation in his residence, but it's even more important on the street. No one, not even the NRA can attempt to keep track of assaults or robberies stopped by flashlight. But I imagine there have been many.

Two thugs walk toward you after dark in a Wal-Mart parking lot this time of year? Christmas presents in your cart? If they get close, a boatload of lumens in their eyes and a confident, command voice, female or male, may very well stop something before it ever had a chance to start.

Keep your EDC gun and flashlight always at hand.
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Re: I.D.'ing threat in low- or no-light conditions (aka 'dark')

#11

Post by MadMonkey »

bmwrdr wrote:I think regular training in dark conditions would be the best way to approach the problem.
Yep. You really won't know your capabilities (or lack thereof) until you do it.

Always carry a light, even if you think you'll only be out during the day. But knowing how to use it is just as important as having it on you. I'm a big fan of weapon mounted lights, but even with those, always carry a handheld with you as well, and know how to use it in conjunction with your pistol.
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