Electricity Providers

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MaduroBU
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Re: Electricity Providers

#76

Post by MaduroBU »

The REPs getting hammered by ERCOT need to sue the generators who caused the mess by breaking the grid.

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Re: Electricity Providers

#77

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MaduroBU wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:59 pm The REPs getting hammered by ERCOT need to sue the generators who caused the mess by breaking the grid.
The problem is not solely with the generators. ERCOT allowed the market prices to explode to $9,000/MWH.
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Re: Electricity Providers

#78

Post by srothstein »

OneGun wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:37 am
MaduroBU wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:59 pm The REPs getting hammered by ERCOT need to sue the generators who caused the mess by breaking the grid.
The problem is not solely with the generators. ERCOT allowed the market prices to explode to $9,000/MWH.
I could be wrong, but ERCOT did not allow it to explode, that would have been OK in my opinion, just market forces at work. But as I understand it, ERCOT was ordered by PUC to artificially set it that high. If I am right about the order, it is the PUC's fault. If I am wrong and it was just ERCOT, then they should be hung out to dry instead. That board is running short of people right now as they get hung out. My question is if they are being used as scapegoats or are the ones who deserve it.
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Flightmare
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Re: Electricity Providers

#79

Post by Flightmare »

srothstein wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:45 pm
OneGun wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:37 am
MaduroBU wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:59 pm The REPs getting hammered by ERCOT need to sue the generators who caused the mess by breaking the grid.
The problem is not solely with the generators. ERCOT allowed the market prices to explode to $9,000/MWH.
I could be wrong, but ERCOT did not allow it to explode, that would have been OK in my opinion, just market forces at work. But as I understand it, ERCOT was ordered by PUC to artificially set it that high. If I am right about the order, it is the PUC's fault. If I am wrong and it was just ERCOT, then they should be hung out to dry instead. That board is running short of people right now as they get hung out. My question is if they are being used as scapegoats or are the ones who deserve it.
From the news articles I have read, your comments appear to be mostly correct. ERCOT was supposed to reduce the price as the production was turned back on, and didn't do that. So the PUC ordered ERCOT to artificially increase the price to encourage reduced usage, then ERCOT I guess "forgot" to roll back that increase for a few days. As a result, some retailers were shut out of the market (Griddy) and others have filed for bankruptcy.
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philip964
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Re: Electricity Providers

#80

Post by philip964 »

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/04 ... 6-billion/

16 billion in over charges just in the last 33 hours after the crisis had passed.

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-regulators ... 44818.html

PUC will not return 16 billion to consumers or power providers or, wind mill operators who may all file for bankruptcy.

See attachment.
Attachments
AA8FEC70-693F-456E-B83A-CFC6E758DFAA.jpeg

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Re: Electricity Providers

#81

Post by dlh »

philip964 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 4:48 pm https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/04 ... 6-billion/

16 billion in over charges just in the last 33 hours after the crisis had passed.

https://news.yahoo.com/texas-regulators ... 44818.html

PUC will not return 16 billion to consumers or power providers or, wind mill operators who may all file for bankruptcy.

See attachment.
This is all totally outrageous. I hope we get some leadership and/or lawsuits to straighten this out.
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Paladin
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Re: Electricity Providers

#82

Post by Paladin »

PUC seems to be government at it's worst. They artificially jack up the electric rates to the max when people need it most and have no competency or clue over the utilities that they are charged with regulating.

Answering the question if their actions are criminal or just incompetence needs to be sorted out.
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Re: Electricity Providers

#83

Post by srothstein »

Flightmare wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:11 pm From the news articles I have read, your comments appear to be mostly correct. ERCOT was supposed to reduce the price as the production was turned back on, and didn't do that. So the PUC ordered ERCOT to artificially increase the price to encourage reduced usage, then ERCOT I guess "forgot" to roll back that increase for a few days. As a result, some retailers were shut out of the market (Griddy) and others have filed for bankruptcy.
Thanks for clearing it up. It means that ERCOT's board is not being used as scapegoats, but they are also not the only ones that need to be investigated and punished. You know, sometimes I think the days of tar and feathers need to be brought back for government officials who misbehave.
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Re: Electricity Providers

#84

Post by crazy2medic »

I fail to understand why my electric bill is twice what it normally is when I had electricity for half the time!
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Re: Electricity Providers

#85

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Read the first part of this page...but in light of the recent $16 billion ruling, don't have any coffee in your mouth or you'll need a new keyboard:

https://www.puc.texas.gov/agency/about/ ... mpact.aspx

And then you'll come this: "The Public Utility Commission is organized under the direction of three full-time appointed commissioners and the executive director, who is selected by the commissioners."

So there is zero public oversite or accountability of the commission, and no administrators are elected officials. Oversite is by the state bureaucracy only, and the commission's director is selected unilaterally by the three appointed commissioners.

With hindsight to February, does this seem like a great idea? I mean, the Texas Railroad Commissioner is an elected position (and, interestingly enough, the Texas Railroad Commission has no jurisdiction or authority over railroads in Texas) but the PUC director is not an elected position? After all, the PUC only controls electricity, telecommunications, and water. Nothing major...
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Re: Electricity Providers

#86

Post by srothstein »

Rafe wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:48 amAnd then you'll come this: "The Public Utility Commission is organized under the direction of three full-time appointed commissioners and the executive director, who is selected by the commissioners."

So there is zero public oversite or accountability of the commission, and no administrators are elected officials. Oversite is by the state bureaucracy only, and the commission's director is selected unilaterally by the three appointed commissioners.
I left out that part in my rant about who is responsible and who is a scapegoat, I am unable to track down who appoints the ERCOT board of Directors. Some are listed as "ex officio, non-voting" members which means they sit on this board because they hold another office that the law made them representatives on the board. The consumer representative is one of these offices. The rest represent different segments of the electric market, such as the rural electric providers or municipal retail providers or whatever. These could be elected by the segment they represent or appointed by some group that represents that segment. A good investigation of this is needed and the makeup of the board may need to be changed.

But I thought most people knew the PUC was a government agency with commissioners appointed by the governor. And since he has been in office long enough, every appointed commissioner in Texas government has been appointed by Abbott. And we need to remember that in 18 months when the election comes.
Last edited by srothstein on Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Paladin
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Re: Electricity Providers

#87

Post by Paladin »

Rafe wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:48 am Read the first part of this page...but in light of the recent $16 billion ruling, don't have any coffee in your mouth or you'll need a new keyboard:

https://www.puc.texas.gov/agency/about/ ... mpact.aspx

And then you'll come this: "The Public Utility Commission is organized under the direction of three full-time appointed commissioners and the executive director, who is selected by the commissioners."

So there is zero public oversite or accountability of the commission, and no administrators are elected officials. Oversite is by the state bureaucracy only, and the commission's director is selected unilaterally by the three appointed commissioners.

With hindsight to February, does this seem like a great idea? I mean, the Texas Railroad Commissioner is an elected position (and, interestingly enough, the Texas Railroad Commission has no jurisdiction or authority over railroads in Texas) but the PUC director is not an elected position? After all, the PUC only controls electricity, telecommunications, and water. Nothing major...
I have a little insider knowledge of PUC. You can tell from the legalize in their statements that they are lawyers. None of them have any knowledge of electricity, telecommunications, or water that they regulate. From what I hear their offices don't have much in the way of subject matter experts either. You just can't successfully regulate that way. Subject matter experts and inspectors working in the field are required.
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Re: Electricity Providers

#88

Post by dlh »

srothstein wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:40 am
Rafe wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:48 amAnd then you'll come this: "The Public Utility Commission is organized under the direction of three full-time appointed commissioners and the executive director, who is selected by the commissioners."

So there is zero public oversite or accountability of the commission, and no administrators are elected officials. Oversite is by the state bureaucracy only, and the commission's director is selected unilaterally by the three appointed commissioners.
I left out that part in my rant about who is responsible and who is a scapegoat, I am unable to track down who appoints the ERCOT board of Directors. Some are listed as "ex officio, non-voting" members which means they sit on this board because they hold another office that the law made them representatives on the board. The consumer representative is one of these offices. The rest represent different segments of the electric market, such as the rural electric providers or municipal retail providers or whatever. These could be elected by the segment they represent or appointed by some group that represents that segment. A good investigation of this is needed and the makeup of the board may need to be changed.

But I thought most people knew the PUC was a government agency with commissioners appointed by the governor. And since he has been in office long enough, every appointed commissioner in Texas government has been appointed by Abbott. And we need to remember that in 18 months when the election comes.
Correct. Commissioner appointments are "crony" appointments of the Governor. The buck stops with him. Wonder if his next appointment will be a 'crony" appointment or somebody with expertise in the field--especially somebody who can make proper decisions under stress.
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Re: Electricity Providers

#89

Post by ELB »

There’s a guy in Austin, who is not “of Austin“ if you catch my drift, has a nice blog post compiling analyses of the recent Snovid event.

https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=47349

Cliff’s Notes as I understood the articles:

Solar and wind have been subsidized so they are cheaper than electricity from reliable sources like gas and coal. And presumably nukes. So there’s no Incentive for the operators of reliable energy sources to improve their plants, or even replace them when the old ones go off-line permanently.

Part of the subsidization is that solar and wind or not required to pay for any grid reliability improvements like reliable energy producers are. For example they are not required to maintain battery farms so that they can send power during low sun and low wind nor maintain backup gas generators. I know from other reading that there are battery farm projects being attempted near the wind farms, But they are still in the early experimental stages and depend on subsidies from the feds.

Wind power was producing at 2% of its capacity during the Snovid. There were a lot of wind turbines that froze, but even without that there was not much capacity expected from the wind farms that week anyway.

Because of the price differences between “green“ electric energy and reliable electric energy, the margin between what the entire grid can produce and what the customers demand has narrowed significantly. As old Reliable power plants went off-line permanently there was no economic or regulatory incentive to replace them.

During the February to April time period Electrical demand in Texas is traditionally lower, so that’s when many plant operators take their plants off line for maintenance. They can’t be brought back online immediately, so that reduced the margin even more.

ERCOT Reacted too late to the initial spike in electrical demand causing Reliable energy plants to trip off-line because of the sudden excess demand on their capacity. There are big industrial users of electricity who have agreed in advance to be taken off line in the case of events like this, but ERCOT didn’t make that happen soon enough, among other things. Those plants that tripped off line were not designed To be immediately brought back online.

I don’t think we should have all our energy sources in one basket, be at “green” or oil or gas or nukes. We should have a variety of sources, but those sources it all have to be some basic requirements to keep the grid up. It’s time for wind and solar to stop being treated as a Favorite child and required to stand on its own 2 feet. That’s gonna be unlikely with the Democrats in charge of the federal government but maybe Texas can move that direction if her legislature has enough guts. Which I’m not optimistic about.
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philip964
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Re: Electricity Providers

#90

Post by philip964 »

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/15/us/gridd ... index.html

Griddy files for Chapter 11.

Griddy decided a few days ago I owed them another $300. It has been two weeks since they were removed by ERCOT as my energy provider and was sent to Power provider of last resort.

They took the $50 I still had on account, but I decided to not pay the last $250. Hopefully I won’t owe it down the road. Getting anything back is looking very remote.

I’m now with someone else who charges 9.5 cents a KWh all in. That’s only a penny above Griddy for 2020 and it’s fixed.

My power provider of last resort charged me around $7 for the one day with them. That was for 55 KWh. That would have been $495 under the PUC’s emergency order.
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