Mosin Nagant... school me, please

[Warhammer]

I've been thinking about getting a Mosin Nagant. They're cheap and look like fun, not to mention owning a historical rifle is always cool.

So, what do I need to know to buy the right one?

I've seen them priced from $80 to about $130. I'm pretty sure I want the full length version, not the carbine. Other than that... round vs. hexagonal? Iron sights or the "sniper" version? (Is there really even a sniper Mosin, or is that just creative advertising?) What else do I need to consider & what's a good price?

Thanks!

[Dave2]

I've been thinking about getting a Mosin Nagant. They're cheap and look like fun, not to mention owning a historical rifle is always cool.

So, what do I need to know to buy the right one?

I've seen them priced from $80 to about $130. I'm pretty sure I want the full length version, not the carbine. Other than that... round vs. hexagonal? Iron sights or the "sniper" version? (Is there really even a sniper Mosin, or is that just creative advertising?) What else do I need to consider & what's a good price?

Thanks!

Hex receivers are "more desirable", but I'm not sure if they're any better from a functional standpoint. The Russians switched to round receivers for the production ramp-up for or during WWII, so I guess the round receivers were easier to make. I do not know why it was originally designed with a hex receiver, nor do I know if they switched back after the war was over. (FWIW, mine has a hex receiver and was made in 1931).

Dunno about the sniper thing, but I'm curious to know the answer.

[The Annoyed Man]

I've been thinking about getting a Mosin Nagant. They're cheap and look like fun, not to mention owning a historical rifle is always cool.

So, what do I need to know to buy the right one?

I've seen them priced from $80 to about $130. I'm pretty sure I want the full length version, not the carbine. Other than that... round vs. hexagonal? Iron sights or the "sniper" version? (Is there really even a sniper Mosin, or is that just creative advertising?) What else do I need to consider & what's a good price?

Thanks!

Yes, there were sniper variants—the Dragoon (1920s) and the 91/30 (1934): http://mosinnagant.net/sniper%20section ... hotos1.asp. I couldn't tell you if they simply mounted optics on production rifles that grouped well, or if the rifles themselves were also gone through and accurized. In any case, one of the greatest snipers in modern history was a Russian by the name of Vasily Zaytsev (SOURCE), on whose exploits the movie Enemy at the Gates is loosely based. Zaytsev killed his first 32 Germans with a standard issue Mosin Nagant before being issued a sniper version, with which he went on to make 242 verified kills between October 1942 and January 1943 during the battle of Stalingrad. That's a pretty impressive record in anybody's book. I believe that most of his kills were at what snipers today would consider to be fairly close range, and he depended more on being able to master the terrain of the urban battlefield reduced to rubble.

Here is a picture of Zaytsev taken at Stalingrad in October of 1942, holding his Mosin sniper rifle:

[rthillusa]

"They" say the ones from the Tula armory, pre WWII, are more desirable but who knows. Most sources say there really is no functional difference and it is only that Tula didn't make as many as some of the other armories. My assumption is that anything seriously collectible will never make it to the Cabella's $99 sale rack.

The guy at Cabella's said they sell hundreds a week and a few out of each shipment have the Tula star on the receiver. We picked through a bunch on the rack, and then had them look thru the ones in the back and pulled out a 1938 and a 1939 Tula "Dragoon" (48 1/2" length).

There a about a gillion Youtube videos on everything Nagant. The best web site I have found so far is http://7.62x54r.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm still getting my feet wet on this particular gun, but so far me and my grand-son have had a blast and we haven't even shot them yet. Even my wife wants her own, just because of the historical interest.

[rthillusa]

This link boils it down pretty succinctly

For exactly why you need a Mosin Nagant - you need read no further than this:

http://62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[C-dub]

It looks a little similar to an SKS. What is the difference between the two? Did the base the SKS on the Mosin?

BTW, I fired someone's Mosin at one of our shoot and eats and I'm still not sure which one kicks more. The Mosin or my Henry or my recently acquired old 30-06.

[threoh8]

It boils down to what you want the rifle to be.

Shootable piece of history? All models
Nostalgic deer rifle? The longer models aren't all that hard to maneuver, unless you hunt thickets
Basis for an F-class target rifle? Good luck - and post a build thread with photos!
Beater rifle? Why not?

The plain-jane iron-sighted rifle works well enough, but its bolt position is a little awkward for rapid fire when compared to some other rifles from just that era (98 Mauser, Krag, Springfield, Enfield ...)

The scoped rifles offer easier sight adjustments than the irons do. The longer bolt handle helps, but its usually still too far forward for my arms. And some of the high scope mounts don't allow a great stock (cheek) weld.

The bolt action 7.62X54R Mosin Nagant is significantly more powerful than the 7.62X39 semi-auto SKS. Some of its reputation for painful recoil especially in the carbines comes from the sharp-edged buttplate. A slip-on recoil pad or thick rubber buttplate makes it much more comfortable.

[sookandy]

No matter what you pick out they are all a good piece of history. I started collecting them and have about 17. As for hex or round. It makes no difference. The original design was a hex, they switched a couple of years before the war to save on cost and ease of manufacture. Some places put a small premium on the hex or Tulas. The 1942 and 1943 Izhevsk are the most common. A 1941 Tula is almost a holy grail. If you just want a good shooter, bore condition is all that matters. The carbines are a hoot. Then you get into Finn captures and other countries. Ammo is cheap and you can hit a barn in the next county. As for a sniper one the only true ones are sold by rguns the others all pretty much all fake or reproductions. They will run ya about $800.

[The Annoyed Man]

I can't think of Mosins without also considering the SMLE, the '03 Springfield, and the K98. Of the three latter rifles, I've always wanted a Springfield. And BTW, I saw a couple of '03 Springfields chambered in .308 at the Dallas gun show a couple of weeks ago.

The current issue of Gun-Tests magazine has a comparison of all four rifles (SOURCE). The editors had this to say:

As a test of war rifles, the Lee Enfield came in at the top of the heap. We all agreed that if we had to go into combat in any of the World Wars or any other role resembling combat, the Lee Enfield would be our first choice. The Lee Enfield features an action with plenty of tolerance built in to allow the rifle to fire when invaded with dirt and mud — a big plus for a war piece. But for today’s recreational or game shooter, it stretches cases and makes reloading difficult. It is also the least powerful rifle tested.

Most of us are hunters, and the Springfield would be the team’s first choice for hunting game. The most accurate rifle, it would be a fine choice for recreational target shooting as well. For handloaders, the Springfield in 30-06 offers plenty of options. Though the Lee Enfield is a fight-winning rifle, the Springfield Smith Corona makes more sense for today’s collector/shooter, we believe.

Elsewhere, the well-made Mauser gave the most performance for the money, but it’s not up to the standard of the Enfield and Springfield, we thought. With the others to pick from, we don’t see any reason to buy a Mosin Nagant except as a shooting collectible.

They gave both the Enfield and the Springfield an "A" grade, the Mauser a "B," and the Mosin a "C." My own choice would be the Springfield, but I think that this misses the point about the Mosin—and that is to buy an inexpensive piece of history (of which there is a nearly inexhaustible supply) that shoots cheap ammo (which can apparently be sourced from underneath potato farms in the Ukraine), and just go have some fun with it. If you can shoot one with enough accuracy to bag a deer with it, all the better.

But if I had to pick a WW2 era rifle to go to war with, it wouldn't be any of those four. It would be a Garand....hands down. Even today, with the plethora of battle rifles available on the market—AR15s, M1A/M14s, AK47/74, FNSCAR, AR10, etc., etc.—one would still be pretty adequately armed with a Garand if it came down to it.

All of that said, a Mosin sounds like good clean fun for not too much money.

[Warhammer]

Thanks for all the advice and links, guys!

At first, I was waffling back and forth between picking up a cheap Mosin and sporterizing it, or just leaving it alone and enjoying it for what it is. The more I think about it, I'm just going to leave it as is. I think trying to make a Mosin into a modern hunting rifle is akin to putting lift kit and Super Swampers on a sedan. You may eventually turn it into a passable facsimile of something else, but you'll probably end up spending more time and money (with inferior results) that if you just bought what you really wanted in the first place. I'm going to concentrate on a good bore and an action that doesn't hang up too badly, and then just enjoy shooting a piece of history. I'll stick with iron sights, since it seems that the "snipers" are either too expensive, fake or both. At $80 each, I may just pick up one in each length; full length for the accuracy and a carbine for the fireball!

BTW, what modern cartridge would be a rough equivalent to the Mosin's 7.62x54?

[Middle Age Russ]

7.62x54R offers ballistics pretty close to the venerable 30-06. In the heavier loadings it appears to be about 100fps slower due to the lower case capacity.

[sookandy]

They have them local for $90 and have a ton to choose from. Not sure if I can name the store.

[sookandy]

7.62x54R offers ballistics pretty close to the venerable 30-06. In the heavier loadings it appears to be about 100fps slower due to the lower case capacity.

[XinTX]

Think I've said this before, but I got to see his rifle. It's still in a special display case in the Kremlin. He's still kind of a national hero.

And I like Mosins. Have two of them.

Here is a picture of Zaytsev taken at Stalingrad in October of 1942, holding his Mosin sniper rifle:

[Warhammer]

Think I've said this before, but I got to see his rifle. It's still in a special display case in the Kremlin. He's still kind of a national hero.

And I like Mosins. Have two of them.

Cool! I really like historical gun displays. I've been to the Texas Rangers Museum in Waco several times and I still enjoy it every time.

I just had surgery on my left shoulder yesterday, so I won't be shooting any long arms for a week or two, but I'll start looking for a good Mosin in a few days.