drjoker wrote:cyphertext wrote:For the use described, I see no reason to pay for more than anything than a M&P 15 Sport. Can be had for less than $600, leaving money for optic and ammunition.
Yep, I have a sport. It has a FULL PROFILE BARREL that is melonite not chromed so it is very accurate. Other entry level ar15s have a thin "light" profile barrel and are crap. Melonite doesn't change the dimensions of the bore like chrome, so it is more accurate. The only difference is that it lacks a dust cover, which you won't need, unless you are in Iraq. Besides, that dust cover pops open when you pull the trigger, anyways. It lacks a forward assist so you won't be able to irreparably jam wrong or faulty ammo into the chamber/bore. I mean, no other rifle on earth I know of has a forward assist anyways, so it is not necessary. Also, s&w has a lifetime guarantee. It comes with pop up backup iron sights, which will cost you an extra $40 to $50 on other ar15s.
I would not get a sport if you plan on reselling it as the lack of a dust cover makes it less tacicool to mall ninjas so that affects resale value. I would not get a sport if you will be an operator in the sandbox with it. Otherwise, go for it. $560 grab agun.
Wow..... for a guy with his first AR, you sure have a lot of fervent opinions about what is necessary/unnecessary on them.
My son builds AR15s for a living. All day long, that's what he does. They recommend forward assists and dustcovers on all the rifles they build. It makes no difference to them.....they'll build whatever the customer orders....but when asked for advice, they always recommend a forward assist and a dustcover. I won't
have an AR that lacks these items.
BARREL PROFILE:
Yep, I have a sport. It has a FULL PROFILE BARREL that is melonite not chromed so it is very accurate. Other entry level ar15s have a thin "light" profile barrel and are crap. Melonite doesn't change the dimensions of the bore like chrome, so it is more accurate.
First of all, chrome-lining doesn't measurably or negatively affect bore diameter. Do you think that the military would use chrome-lined bores if it did mess with the bore diameter? How about the literally millions and millions of AK47/AK74s that have been sold......ALL with chrome-lined bores? Second, "entry" level ARs don't ALL have thin light barrels, and even some that do can be exceedingly accurate.....if it is a quality barrel. Here's a fact: the M4 profile barrel is what comes on most entry level ARs, simply because it is manufactured in greater numbers than any other profile. It is not "full profile", and accuracy is determined by a lot more than just the barrel profile. Twist rates come into play. Tolerances come into play. Choice of ammunition comes into play. Some lightweight barrels will outshoot heavier barrels although most won't, and some M4 profile barrels will outshoot heavy barrels. Daniel defense makes a pencil-barreled AR that will shoot 1.5 MOA, which is more accurate than many heavier barreled ARs are capable of. The truth is that most entry level barrels are produced by military contract barrel makers. They may be cheap, but they aren't crap. They're just mass-produced to mil-spec. But the fact is that "pencil" barreled ARs are far outnumbered by ARs with either M4 or heavy barrels. Also it is a fact that 99% of the time, it's not the rifle, it's the shooter, no matter what profile of barrel the rifle has. A superb shooter with a pencil barrel can probably outperform a poor shooter with a heavy match barrel.
FORWARD ASSIST:
"It lacks a forward assist so you won't be able to irreparably jam wrong or faulty ammo into the chamber/bore"
REALLY? You've been owning shooting one for HOW long now? I've put thousands of rounds down the barrels of ARs over the years. I have never accidentally loaded my AR with the wrong caliber of ammunition. I have actually used my forward assist to complete pushing a round into battery after having shot a huge number of rounds on a hot day. Over the years, this has happened more than once. The rifle was dirty and I shot it dry. Forward assist worked. I did NOT "irreparably jam wrong or faulty ammo into the chamber/bore". I completed the loading cycle by using the forward assist, fired the round which ejected the spent case, opened her up, took out the BCG, lubed everything up, put it back together, and went back to work. Elapsed time.....maybe a couple of minutes. What you don't realize about the forward assist is that you could beat on it with a hammer, and it will NOT force a cartridge of incorrect dimensions into the chamber. That is a myth, made up by whomever was hot to trot to sell you the rifle (which you were hot to trot to buy). IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!!!! That is NOT what a forward assist is capable of doing, because you just can't generate enough push with that assist button to do that. With an incorrectly dimensioned cartridge, the forward assist would simply refuse to go forward. On the other hand, with a correctly sized cartridge, forward assist will work to get it chambered if it fails to go all the way into battery. If you are in a firefight, forward assist may save your life, or someone else's. Why on earth would you say as gospel truth that it is unnecessary? Forward assist can be likened to the reason you carry a gun. You don't expect to need your gun on any given day, but on the day you need it, you'll either be thankful for having it, or curse your own stupidity for leaving it at home. Forward assist is the same thing. You may not ever need it, but you'll be extremely thankful to have it if you ever do. In a gunfight, your fight may be over.....because you didn't think forward assist might be necessary.
DUST COVERS:
...it lacks a dust cover, which you won't need, unless you are in Iraq. Besides, that dust cover pops open when you pull the trigger, anyways.
- First, the dust cover doesn't "pop off" when you pull the trigger. It "swings open" any time the bolt carrier travels past the ejection port.....whether that is from firing the rifle, or from pulling the charging handle.
Second, In the part of north Texas I live in (DFW metroplex), it is often windy, and dusty. By keeping the dust cover closed and a magazine in the gun, the action stays clean(er). My son's very first AR, purchased some years ago, had a DPMS upper which lacked a dust cover. Even though the gun spent most of the time either inside a safe, or inside of a carry bag, the action of that rifle was always collecting crap. We may not live in Iraq, but have you ever heard of dog hair? How about lint? How about just the dust that gets past your AC filters and windows and doors? I don't know about you, but I live in a decent home in suburbia.....and yet, every week or so my wife dusts all the furniture because despite our best efforts, dust gets into the house......even into the gun safe. And yet..... strange..... it isn't Iraq.
If you never ever intend to use that rifle in self-defense.....ever.....then don't worry about it. Buy whatever you want. But remember that your words here get read by others, especially when you post them as "gospel truth". You posted your poll asking the members here for advice about choosing an AR or an AK rifle to buy on September 13, just 2 weeks ago. You just posted
yesterday that you bought your first AR "recently".....so
less than two weeks ago, you bought your first AR. With all due respect, you are a noobie to ARs.
That is OK.....all of us who have one were at one time noobies and there is no sin in that. But when you state fundamentally inaccurate information as if it were incontrovertible Gospel Truth, you are doing a disservice to others who are still trying to decide what they want in an AR platform rifle.
The fact is that dust covers and forward assists are
options for the platform, and those options
may be necessary to
someone, even if they aren't necessary to
you. So when you say "
it lacks a dust cover, which you won't need, unless you are in Iraq", you're dead wrong. Maybe
YOU don't think you need one, but I do think I need one, and I can back up my need with empirical evidence......like dog hair, lint, and house dust. These two items only add an ounce or two to the overall weight of my rifle. They may
not be absolutely necessary on any given day, but they ARE absolutely necessary when there is a need, and nothing else will serve. To paraphrase Longtooth, guess right, or have a dust cover and forward assist on your AR 24/7.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"
#TINVOWOOT
