Pennsylvania CHL Holder Arrested in New Jersey

[Keith B]

A new CHL holder from Pennsylvania was arrested for crossing into New Jersey with her gun in the car. She stated she was unaware of the laws. This is why I say that a CHL class is critical and they need to be properly covered on the laws and reciprocity.

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/story/25996007/ ... t-problems" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jmra]

What you don't know CAN hurt you.

[Crossfire]

This is a terrible tragedy for this young woman. Unfortunately, PA does not require a class to obtain a CHL. You only have to pass a background check and give some personal references.

Of course, it could be argued that she should have been responsible for learning the laws herself, but how many Texans do you think would do that if there was no class requirement?

[RoyGBiv]

Especially in States that don't require a class.... and especially, especially in States that don't require a class and share a border with NJ or NY.... the issuing Authority should have a simple "Reciprocity 101" pamphlet to give you when you are issued your license.

Might be a good case for SCOTUS?

[Jim Beaux]

There is no justice in this situation. This is draconian. obama and holder have willingly violated more gun laws without penalty...aka "Fast and Furious".

I travel often and plan my routes using "Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States" & google. I have driven miles out of the way to avoid certain states - & if I cant, I try to ensure that I dont spend a nickel there.

[Saffron]

This is a terrible tragedy for this young woman. Unfortunately, PA does not require a class to obtain a CHL. You only have to pass a background check and give some personal references.

Of course, it could be argued that she should have been responsible for learning the laws herself, but how many Texans do you think would do that if there was no class requirement?

They didn't cover New Jersey or other state laws in my Texas class. Did I have a bad instructor?

[Keith B]

This is a terrible tragedy for this young woman. Unfortunately, PA does not require a class to obtain a CHL. You only have to pass a background check and give some personal references.

Of course, it could be argued that she should have been responsible for learning the laws herself, but how many Texans do you think would do that if there was no class requirement?

They didn't cover New Jersey or other state laws in my Texas class. Did I have a bad instructor?

They should have at least covered reciprocity and told you or gave you a list of what states honor the Texas CHL. If not, then I would say yes you did.

[Jaguar]

I got a map handout and a pointer to http://www.handgunlaw.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Oldgringo]

This is a terrible tragedy for this young woman. Unfortunately, PA does not require a class to obtain a CHL. You only have to pass a background check and give some personal references.

Of course, it could be argued that she should have been responsible for learning the laws herself, but how many Texans do you think would do that if there was no class requirement?

They didn't cover New Jersey or other state laws in my Texas class. Did I have a bad instructor?

They should have at least covered reciprocity and told you or gave you a list of what states honor the Texas CHL. If not, then I would say yes you did.

I don't recall reciprocity being discussed in either my initial or my renewal classes; however, I did learn of this on the TexasCHLforum.

[ryanj]

PA does not require a class to get a LTCF but I know her lawyer and he said she had training, and it's the training that told her to let the police officer know as soon as she's pulled over. If she'd kept her mouth shut and not consented to any search she would not be in trouble now. Yeah I know. You have to act like a criminal to stay out if trouble here.

The bigger problem is that the law requires at least 3.5 years in prison for her if convicted. The prosecutor could have dropped the charges in exchange for some probation but the prosecutor clearly seems to want to make an example of her.

[ryanj]

Especially in States that don't require a class.... and especially, especially in States that don't require a class and share a border with NJ or NY.... the issuing Authority should have a simple "Reciprocity 101" pamphlet to give you when you are issued your license.

Might be a good case for SCOTUS?

She got her LTC from Philadelphia who hates giving them out in the first place. I know some other counties in PA have seminars and they tell you about reciprocity and transport across state lines.

This could be a nice case for SCOTUS especially since they turned down the Drake lawsuit. We have a few more we are pushing ahead with though. Not only 2A issues but possibly also 8A Issues (cruel and unusual punishment).

[jmra]

Of course, it could be argued that she should have been responsible for learning the laws herself...

I believe this is a very valid argument. Ultimately, just or not, as individuals we have a responsibility to educate ourselves regarding the rules and regulations related to activities in which we choose to participate. The town I work in has an ordinance on the books that states you can't make a u-turn. There aren't any signs saying you can't make a u-turn, but that argument will get you nowhere when you get pulled over because ignorance of the law is no excuse. Sucks for out of towners but that's the way it is. Fortunately that's just a ticket and not 3 yrs in jail.
Back to this case, if you have any active brain cells whatsoever you have to know that you are subject to the laws of the state you are traveling in. If you don't do your homework you fail. In this case failure comes with a hefty price.

[philip964]

Especially in States that don't require a class.... and especially, especially in States that don't require a class and share a border with NJ or NY.... the issuing Authority should have a simple "Reciprocity 101" pamphlet to give you when you are issued your license.

Might be a good case for SCOTUS?

Yeah this would be great for the NRA to get behind. She had been robbed twice last year, single mom, works two jobs. Told officer about concealed gun, during traffic stop as maybe she was required to in her state. Sounded like the three years was mandatory.

And Chris Christy wants to be the Republican candidate for President.

[cb1000rider]

Ultimately, just or not, as individuals we have a responsibility to educate ourselves regarding the rules and regulations related to activities in which we choose to participate. The town I work in has an ordinance on the books that states you can't make a u-turn. There aren't any signs saying you can't make a u-turn, but that argument will get you nowhere when you get pulled over because ignorance of the law is no excuse. Sucks for out of towners but that's the way it is. Fortunately that's just a ticket and not 3 yrs in jail. Back to this case, if you have any active brain cells whatsoever you have to know that you are subject to the laws of the state you are traveling in. If you don't do your homework you fail. In this case failure comes with a hefty price.

I'm with you on the personal responsibility. However, we (on this forum) spend tons of time talking about the laws of our state just to get clarity on them. We live in a big ole' state where it can take 8 hours to cross the boundaries. Up there in the NE, you can cross several boundaries in an hour... Expecting people to know the intricacies of each state's law is burdensome and isn't a realistic expectation.

We all know that ignorance is no excuse. However, in this case, as a tax payer, I'd expect some "selective" prosecution if such is allowed by law. Locking good people up because they made a simple, albeit ignorant, mistake doesn't do anyone any good.

I'm traveling by RV to Michigan this year. I looked up the reciprocity maps and know I'm OK in the vehicle all the way up to Illinois. However, in Illinois, I know that I'm "not OK" and probably spent about an hour just trying to understand what how I can legally transport weapons "outside" of my vehicle. In particular, the legal definition of "case", which all firearms must be in.. I'm not going to bother looking up what types of signs have the force of law in all those states, I'm just going to avoid the issue by abiding by all signs. But lets say that I was stopped in Illinois and was asked if the vehicle had any weapons (anywhere)? Sure seems like the smart answer would be "no". Zero penalty of lying, big penalty if you're doing it wrong.

There local jurisdictions in Illinois that have MORE restrictive gun laws than the state itself... And is it reasonable for me to look up every single county / city restriction that is possible anywhere I travel? I know better than to go to Chicago, but really?

[gljjt]

Average cost to the state of New Jersey to incarcerate a prisoner: $28,000.

http://nicic.gov/statestats/?st=NJ

Is it really worth $84,000 of the taxpayers money to lock this woman up for a mistake that hurt no one and really shouldn't even be a crime? These people are idiots.