TexasCHLforum.com

Published February 3, 2012

UA President Eugene Sander publicly declared his opposition to guns on campus on Thursday, as well as discussed his recent meetings with state legislators regarding the College of Medicine and the university’s budget during his fourth town hall-style meeting.

Sander began the meeting by explaining some of the proposed legislation that would allow guns on campus, saying that because the UA is an academic hub that houses scholars, athletes, professors and children, having guns on campus would be neither smart nor safe.

...
Sander also said he spoke with state legislators about increasing the overall class size of the UA’s medical school from 48 to 88 students. By doing so, he said, more students can practice medicine with a degree from one of the finest programs in the country.

more at http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/index.ph ... _on_campus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

larger class sizes for doctors, running more of them through the paper mill .. ... didn't I read that doctors already kill more people in this country than guns do?

The spirit of Governor Orval Faubus lives on at UA.

Folks, at the risk of being deemed a heretic by my fellow Texas CH licensees, I have reservations about guns on campus.

We had guns in the Dorm at what was then TPI in the early 60's. I later had guns in our married student apartment at the Univ of Tenn in the mid '60's. We openly carried these guns to our cars to go hunting and it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't illegal. The same was true with our fishing poles, etc.

For better or worse, this is not the same country now as it was then. Just sayin'...

Flame away.

Oldgringo wrote:Folks, at the risk of being deemed a heretic by my fellow Texas CH licensees, I have reservations about guns on campus.

We had guns in the Dorm at what was then TPI in the early 60's. I later had guns in our married student apartment at the Univ of Tenn in the mid '60's. We openly carried these guns to our cars to go hunting and it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't illegal. The same was true with our fishing poles, etc.

For better or worse, this is not the same country now as it was then. Just sayin'...

Flame away.

No flames. Some people don't like the idea of guns in schools. Some people don't like the idea of guns in churches. Some people don't like the idea of guns in parks. Some people don't like the idea of guns in movie theaters.

I figure if it's legal for a 25 year old cop to carry in the classroom as a student, then his 45 year old professor with a CHL should be legal to carry too.

Oldgringo wrote:Folks, at the risk of being deemed a heretic by my fellow Texas CH licensees, I have reservations about guns on campus.

We had guns in the Dorm at what was then TPI in the early 60's. I later had guns in our married student apartment at the Univ of Tenn in the mid '60's. We openly carried these guns to our cars to go hunting and it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't illegal. The same was true with our fishing poles, etc.

For better or worse, this is not the same country now as it was then. Just sayin'...

Flame away.

So you have a problem with law abiding CHL'ers carrying on campus. I guess you don't have a problem with phycopaths walking into a campus with guns and blowing away those law abiding CHL'ers who have no way to defend themselves because they obeyed the law and left their gun home.

It is because this is not the same country than it was then that we need to give law abiding citizens the ability to defend themselves.

JJVP wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Folks, at the risk of being deemed a heretic by my fellow Texas CH licensees, I have reservations about guns on campus.

We had guns in the Dorm at what was then TPI in the early 60's. I later had guns in our married student apartment at the Univ of Tenn in the mid '60's. We openly carried these guns to our cars to go hunting and it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't illegal. The same was true with our fishing poles, etc.

For better or worse, this is not the same country now as it was then. Just sayin'...

Flame away.

....So you have a problem with law abiding CHL'ers carrying on campus....

Nope. I think guns should be everywere. My reservations are with a thing that I'll call 'group maturity'. There's probably a more scientific name.

I don't know how it was when you were in college but that scene can often get pretty loose. A mature 21+ y.o. student with a CHL is one thing. A partying group of 18-21+ y.o. students is another thing altogether...if you will recall. Please don't compare armed young people in the military to armed college students. Those are totally horses of different colors.

FWIW, I'm all for the mature and responsible students and instructors being allowed to CC on campus.

This Cato study is already discussed in another thread.
Here's my takeaway regarding campus carry.

Page 16-17
the numbers collected since 1900 show that
crimes of every nature are on the rise on college
campuses. Out of 110 years of data collected
and studied, the past two decades account
for 60 percent of the total number of
crimes committed. In 2008 there were 3,287
rapes, 60 killings, 5,026 assaults, and 4,562
robberies committed across college campuses.
Statistically, combining college campuses
nationwide, there are about 9 sexual
assaults per day.
........................
after Colorado’s 2003 concealed
carry law was enacted, Colorado State University
decided to allow concealed carry,
while the University of Colorado prohibited
firearms. The former observed a rapid decline
in reported crimes, while the latter, under
the gun ban they claimed was for safety,
observed a rapid increase in crime. Crime
at the University of Colorado has risen 35
percent since 2004, while crime at Colorado
State University has dropped 60 percent in
the same time frame.

All I can say is.....

RoyGBiv wrote:This Cato study is already discussed in another thread.
Here's my takeaway regarding campus carry.

Page 16-17
the numbers collected since 1900 show that
crimes of every nature are on the rise on college
campuses. Out of 110 years of data collected
and studied, the past two decades account
for 60 percent of the total number of
crimes committed. In 2008 there were 3,287
rapes, 60 killings, 5,026 assaults, and 4,562
robberies committed across college campuses.
Statistically, combining college campuses
nationwide, there are about 9 sexual
assaults per day.
........................
after Colorado’s 2003 concealed
carry law was enacted, Colorado State University
decided to allow concealed carry,
while the University of Colorado prohibited
firearms. The former observed a rapid decline
in reported crimes, while the latter, under
the gun ban they claimed was for safety,
observed a rapid increase in crime. Crime
at the University of Colorado has risen 35
percent since 2004, while crime at Colorado
State University has dropped 60 percent in
the same time frame.

All I can say is.....

To that, I would add.....

Some are mature and responsible at 15 while others lack that same level of mature responsibility at 40...I dunno'.

Oldgringo wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:This Cato study is already discussed in another thread.
Here's my takeaway regarding campus carry.

Page 16-17
the numbers collected since 1900 show that
crimes of every nature are on the rise on college
campuses. Out of 110 years of data collected
and studied, the past two decades account
for 60 percent of the total number of
crimes committed. In 2008 there were 3,287
rapes, 60 killings, 5,026 assaults, and 4,562
robberies committed across college campuses.
Statistically, combining college campuses
nationwide, there are about 9 sexual
assaults per day.
........................
after Colorado’s 2003 concealed
carry law was enacted, Colorado State University
decided to allow concealed carry,
while the University of Colorado prohibited
firearms. The former observed a rapid decline
in reported crimes, while the latter, under
the gun ban they claimed was for safety,
observed a rapid increase in crime. Crime
at the University of Colorado has risen 35
percent since 2004, while crime at Colorado
State University has dropped 60 percent in
the same time frame.

All I can say is.....

To that, I would add.....

The explanation is easy - with rabid idealogues like those who dominate our government and schools, historically proven failed ideology wins over indisputable facts every time. The welfare of the people whose safety is entrusted to their care doesn't even enter into their minds when making their politically predetermined decisions.

It's the "Progressive" way.

Oldgringo wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:This Cato study is already discussed in another thread.
Here's my takeaway regarding campus carry.

Page 16-17
the numbers collected since 1900 show that
crimes of every nature are on the rise on college
campuses. Out of 110 years of data collected
and studied, the past two decades account
for 60 percent of the total number of
crimes committed. In 2008 there were 3,287
rapes, 60 killings, 5,026 assaults, and 4,562
robberies committed across college campuses.
Statistically, combining college campuses
nationwide, there are about 9 sexual
assaults per day.
........................
after Colorado’s 2003 concealed
carry law was enacted, Colorado State University
decided to allow concealed carry,
while the University of Colorado prohibited
firearms. The former observed a rapid decline
in reported crimes, while the latter, under
the gun ban they claimed was for safety,
observed a rapid increase in crime. Crime
at the University of Colorado has risen 35
percent since 2004, while crime at Colorado
State University has dropped 60 percent in
the same time frame.

All I can say is.....

To that, I would add.....

Some are mature and responsible at 15 while others lack that same level of mature responsibility at 40...I dunno'.

But that is what Campus Carry is about: allowing those with CHLs to carry on campuses...not just every "18-year old drunken frat boy", not matter how hard the media and the liberals running the bulk of college campuses keep saying that kind of stuff. It would be the same people who carry any other place that is legal to carry, it would simply add one more type of place to the list...I've gotten to the point now where I consider just about every mainstream media story that has anything to do with firearms to either be an outright lie or at best a gross exaggeration, unless I can somehow verify otherwise, because they are so biased against due to their ideology. Once again, what stops any crook or nut, as things stand right now, from taking a firearm onto a college campus and utilizing it to perpetrate some violent crime? Do some words on paper stop them? The crooks usually get away, and the nuts usually get killed, or kill themselves...neither group cares much about the laws or some campus policy...only the generally law-abiding citizens who are placed at a disadvantage due to these laws and policies.

Excaliber wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:This Cato study is already discussed in another thread.
Here's my takeaway regarding campus carry.

Page 16-17
the numbers collected since 1900 show that
crimes of every nature are on the rise on college
campuses. Out of 110 years of data collected
and studied, the past two decades account
for 60 percent of the total number of
crimes committed. In 2008 there were 3,287
rapes, 60 killings, 5,026 assaults, and 4,562
robberies committed across college campuses.
Statistically, combining college campuses
nationwide, there are about 9 sexual
assaults per day.
........................
after Colorado’s 2003 concealed
carry law was enacted, Colorado State University
decided to allow concealed carry,
while the University of Colorado prohibited
firearms. The former observed a rapid decline
in reported crimes, while the latter, under
the gun ban they claimed was for safety,
observed a rapid increase in crime. Crime
at the University of Colorado has risen 35
percent since 2004, while crime at Colorado
State University has dropped 60 percent in
the same time frame.

All I can say is.....

To that, I would add.....

The explanation is easy - with rabid idealogues like those who dominate our government and schools, historically proven failed ideology wins over indisputable facts every time. The welfare of the people whose safety is entrusted to their care doesn't even enter into their minds when making their politically predetermined decisions.

It's the "Progressive" way.

I've had a number of conversations on information like this and the results make my head hurt. When I ask for one, just one, example of where such a policy has been proven to work, suddenly, were off on another tangent, unrelated to my question. They "just know" and cannot imagine why I don't just know, too. The next step is down the Bill Maher path where I'm somehow less intelligent in my failure to grasp the "truth" of the situation. I feel a migraine coming on.....

I attended the UT Arlington seminar on Concealed Carry last year. Like the UA president, the UTA President stood up in public and told all the students how he "just wanted to keep them safe." The leader of the session would have grown a 4 foot nose if he had been Pinocchio.

chasfm11 wrote:

Excaliber wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:This Cato study is already discussed in another thread.
Here's my takeaway regarding campus carry.

Page 16-17
the numbers collected since 1900 show that
crimes of every nature are on the rise on college
campuses. Out of 110 years of data collected
and studied, the past two decades account
for 60 percent of the total number of
crimes committed. In 2008 there were 3,287
rapes, 60 killings, 5,026 assaults, and 4,562
robberies committed across college campuses.
Statistically, combining college campuses
nationwide, there are about 9 sexual
assaults per day.
........................
after Colorado’s 2003 concealed
carry law was enacted, Colorado State University
decided to allow concealed carry,
while the University of Colorado prohibited
firearms. The former observed a rapid decline
in reported crimes, while the latter, under
the gun ban they claimed was for safety,
observed a rapid increase in crime. Crime
at the University of Colorado has risen 35
percent since 2004, while crime at Colorado
State University has dropped 60 percent in
the same time frame.

All I can say is.....

To that, I would add.....

The explanation is easy - with rabid idealogues like those who dominate our government and schools, historically proven failed ideology wins over indisputable facts every time. The welfare of the people whose safety is entrusted to their care doesn't even enter into their minds when making their politically predetermined decisions.

It's the "Progressive" way.

I've had a number of conversations on information like this and the results make my head hurt. When I ask for one, just one, example of where such a policy has been proven to work, suddenly, were off on another tangent, unrelated to my question. They "just know" and cannot imagine why I don't just know, too. The next step is down the Bill Maher path where I'm somehow less intelligent in my failure to grasp the "truth" of the situation. I feel a migraine coming on.....

I attended the UT Arlington seminar on Concealed Carry last year. Like the UA president, the UTA President stood up in public and told all the students how he "just wanted to keep them safe." The leader of the session would have grown a 4 foot nose if he had been Pinocchio.

The highlighted text my single biggest problem with those types...it is an arrogance without any boundaries...their "knowledge" makes them better than you and absolutely no actual argument or discussion will be allowed...only them saying why you are wrong and they are right.

Oldgringo wrote:

JJVP wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Folks, at the risk of being deemed a heretic by my fellow Texas CH licensees, I have reservations about guns on campus.

We had guns in the Dorm at what was then TPI in the early 60's. I later had guns in our married student apartment at the Univ of Tenn in the mid '60's. We openly carried these guns to our cars to go hunting and it wasn't a big deal and it wasn't illegal. The same was true with our fishing poles, etc.

For better or worse, this is not the same country now as it was then. Just sayin'...

Flame away.

....So you have a problem with law abiding CHL'ers carrying on campus....

Nope. I think guns should be everywere. My reservations are with a thing that I'll call 'group maturity'. There's probably a more scientific name.

I don't know how it was when you were in college but that scene can often get pretty loose. A mature 21+ y.o. student with a CHL is one thing. A partying group of 18-21+ y.o. students is another thing altogether...if you will recall. Please don't compare armed young people in the military to armed college students. Those are totally horses of different colors.

FWIW, I'm all for the mature and responsible students and instructors being allowed to CC on campus.

No one is proposing to arm all college student. Just allow those with CHL, who are => than 21 yrs old, to carry on campus just like they do everywhere else. It also allows the professors, administrators and other employees the same opportunity. I would be more worried about a liberal college professor carrying in campus than a 21 yr old CHL student.

I would be more worried about a liberal college professor teaching (indoctrinating) on campus than a legally armed and licensed 21 yr old student .

Oldgringo wrote:
Nope. I think guns should be everywere. My reservations are with a thing that I'll call 'group maturity'. There's probably a more scientific name.

I don't know how it was when you were in college but that scene can often get pretty loose. A mature 21+ y.o. student with a CHL is one thing. A partying group of 18-21+ y.o. students is another thing altogether...if you will recall. Please don't compare armed young people in the military to armed college students. Those are totally horses of different colors.

FWIW, I'm all for the mature and responsible students and instructors being allowed to CC on campus.

75% or your stated demographic is not even eligible to have a CHL.

I do understand your point though

If a 21 year old person on campus can be trusted with alcohol and a 4,00 pound deadly weapon, why are we concerned with them having a smaller weapon?
As is proven time and time again... those who have gone through the process to get a CHL, are not at issue with the reality of crime and illegal gun use. It really is not debatable, unless those against ignore or flat out lie. (both common).
Same with carrying on a Military base.
Same with carrying anywhere.. The facts ARE CLEAR AND IRREFUTABLE ... It is not the honest citizen with a concealed gun carried under permission of a CHL that are committing the overwhelming majority of gun related crimes.. It is criminals, who do not obey laws, signs, or ignorant University presidential demands.