DHS to stop deporting illegals

[gdanaher]

I have such mixed feelings about the deportation dilemma. I've been in a position to see it from childrens' perspectives and let me share one example. A young lady graduated from one of our high schools last year and was going on to college. Very smart. Science background, and perhaps a good candidate for a big name school except for one matter. She isn't legal. She was born in Tamaulipas and her mother came to Texas when she was three months old. Unlike many, the mother learned English, melted in, and became a good provider. So here we are years later. The child is grown, speaks with a Texas accent, can barely function in Spanish -- she took classes in school, but can't fully participate in the American experience because her mother did something that handicapped her, 18 years ago. The feds could deport her, sure. But from her perspective it would be like the feds deporting YOU. Mexico is a foreign country to this kid. So, what is the right thing to do?? I'm sure I don't know. The letter of the law says that you deport every illegal alien this afternoon, but in this example, our society has invested a perfectly fine and expensive education in this person, she is smart, she is contributing, she is obeying the laws. Any legal violation was committed by the mother, 18 years ago. We have a lot of folks who are deadbeat citizens who fail to contribute, pay taxes, make something of themselves. Seems like it wouldn't kill us to absorb some some select smart, hardworking folks who themeselves never broke a law. Catch and deport all of their parents and their gang banging children if you can, but think twice about those who have proven themselves.

[mamabearCali]

I am all for making it possible for her to stay, but it needs to be done lawfully. What the admin is so far outside the law it is insane he is not being attacked from the US congress.

[gdanaher]

There is a problem. Congress needs to handle it, get off the dime, and make some decisions. Not all decisions are popular, and rarely are hard decisions easy to make, but nonetheless, the folks in DC need to come to some resolution on this matter. If they want to legalize everyone tomorrow morning, do it to everyone. If they want to deport everyone tomorrow morning, fine, but be fair and do it to everyone, or set up exemptions that anyone younger than xx or older than xx can stay if they function in the language, aren't convicted felons, contribute, pay their taxes, etc. It just seems like some of our fine representatives are willing to let the country rot away because they are afraid some interest group will accuse them of being evil and unamerican. They all need to grow a pair.

[MeMelYup]

I have such mixed feelings about the deportation dilemma. I've been in a position to see it from childrens' perspectives and let me share one example. A young lady graduated from one of our high schools last year and was going on to college. Very smart. Science background, and perhaps a good candidate for a big name school except for one matter. She isn't legal. She was born in Tamaulipas and her mother came to Texas when she was three months old. Unlike many, the mother learned English, melted in, and became a good provider. So here we are years later. The child is grown, speaks with a Texas accent, can barely function in Spanish -- she took classes in school, but can't fully participate in the American experience because her mother did something that handicapped her, 18 years ago. The feds could deport her, sure. But from her perspective it would be like the feds deporting YOU. Mexico is a foreign country to this kid. So, what is the right thing to do?? I'm sure I don't know. The letter of the law says that you deport every illegal alien this afternoon, but in this example, our society has invested a perfectly fine and expensive education in this person, she is smart, she is contributing, she is obeying the laws. Any legal violation was committed by the mother, 18 years ago. We have a lot of folks who are deadbeat citizens who fail to contribute, pay taxes, make something of themselves. Seems like it wouldn't kill us to absorb some some select smart, hardworking folks who themeselves never broke a law. Catch and deport all of their parents and their gang banging children if you can, but think twice about those who have proven themselves.

You need to write to your congressman for the young lady and find out what venues are open for the situation, assuming she wants citizenship. Do this without naming anything specific except the situation.

[gdanaher]

You need to write to your congressman for the young lady and find out what venues are open for the situation, assuming she wants citizenship. Do this without naming anything specific except the situation.

Thanks for helping make my point. The answer is that currently she is just like every other kid in her situation. Congressman Jeb Henserling addressed this actual situation and told my colleague that she needed to go back to Mexico and then apply for residency. There is no law that would currently allow her a path to citizenship without leaving the country, even though we have paid to educate her in our schools as required by law. She wants citizenship, but the procedure requires that she leave the country, go to the US embassy in Mexico City, apply for legal entry, and get on the waiting list. She would need to live in Mexico for years before her number came up, if ever. This matter has been before the Congress for years now and because it is so controversial, they won't touch it for fear of offending some rich conservative supporter. Now when the POTUS sends out an executive order, they seem to scream like school girls that he is usurping they power and authority. Maybe so, but they had the ball for years and dropped it. If the Congress wants to be viewed as active and contributing to the solutions to our problems rather than adding to them as they seem to be doing right now, they would grow some, and pass meaningful legislation that would resolve the immigration problem, at least for minor children brought to this country without their consent.

[speedsix]

I have such mixed feelings about the deportation dilemma. I've been in a position to see it from childrens' perspectives and let me share one example. A young lady graduated from one of our high schools last year and was going on to college. Very smart. Science background, and perhaps a good candidate for a big name school except for one matter. She isn't legal. She was born in Tamaulipas and her mother came to Texas when she was three months old. Unlike many, the mother learned English, melted in, and became a good provider. So here we are years later. The child is grown, speaks with a Texas accent, can barely function in Spanish -- she took classes in school, but can't fully participate in the American experience because her mother did something that handicapped her, 18 years ago. The feds could deport her, sure. But from her perspective it would be like the feds deporting YOU. Mexico is a foreign country to this kid. So, what is the right thing to do?? I'm sure I don't know. The letter of the law says that you deport every illegal alien this afternoon, but in this example, our society has invested a perfectly fine and expensive education in this person, she is smart, she is contributing, she is obeying the laws. Any legal violation was committed by the mother, 18 years ago. We have a lot of folks who are deadbeat citizens who fail to contribute, pay taxes, make something of themselves. Seems like it wouldn't kill us to absorb some some select smart, hardworking folks who themeselves never broke a law. Catch and deport all of their parents and their gang banging children if you can, but think twice about those who have proven themselves.

...America has always been welcoming and merciful...and made exceptions...and taken in folks needing asylum...and this girl sounds like she needs to be here...
...the outrage and hubbub is not because Americans are hard-hearted and cruel...or don't know that immigrants helped make us a great country...we're outraged because our government has totally ignored the laws regarding immigration and allowed our country to be flooded with illegal immigrants...many of those not even trying to become Americans...but taking millions and millions of dollars out of our struggling economy and sending them back home, while taking advantage of all America offers...these are ticks on the flesh of America...not contributing patriotic young people ...
...let our government begin to vigorously enforce the will of the people on existing laws...there would be a lot less resistance to whatever special cases arise...and this girl seems one of those...

[Heartland Patriot]

You need to write to your congressman for the young lady and find out what venues are open for the situation, assuming she wants citizenship. Do this without naming anything specific except the situation.

Thanks for helping make my point. The answer is that currently she is just like every other kid in her situation. Congressman Jeb Henserling addressed this actual situation and told my colleague that she needed to go back to Mexico and then apply for residency. There is no law that would currently allow her a path to citizenship without leaving the country, even though we have paid to educate her in our schools as required by law. She wants citizenship, but the procedure requires that she leave the country, go to the US embassy in Mexico City, apply for legal entry, and get on the waiting list. She would need to live in Mexico for years before her number came up, if ever. This matter has been before the Congress for years now and because it is so controversial, they won't touch it for fear of offending some rich conservative supporter. Now when the POTUS sends out an executive order, they seem to scream like school girls that he is usurping they power and authority. Maybe so, but they had the ball for years and dropped it. If the Congress wants to be viewed as active and contributing to the solutions to our problems rather than adding to them as they seem to be doing right now, they would grow some, and pass meaningful legislation that would resolve the immigration problem, at least for minor children brought to this country without their consent.

You are all wound up about some non-citizens having to go back to whatever country they are FROM and do things the RIGHT way. I really cannot understand your mindset...standing up to someone subverting the law and making near-dictatorial proclamations is to "scream like school girls"...love the rhetorical flourish there, way to use absurdity, and I'd wager that to "grow some and pass meaningful legislation that would resolve the immigration problem" means an amnesty. And if you DON'T mean that, then please, by all means, enlighten us as to the great solution to the immigration issue that you have worked out. No other country in this world allows the kinds of things to go on that have been going on here in the USA...but we're supposed to? Ridiculous.

[RoyGBiv]

If it would be inhuman, as obama claims, to send an "all but citizen" to a country where he may not even know the language, well, wouldn't it also be inhuman to tear a family asunder by deporting only the parents? In for a penny, in for a pound!

Maybe I just have a hard heart.

If the child was BORN IN THIS COUNTRY, they are a legal citizen. If they are under 18, and the parents get deported, the parents can choose to leave the child in the US with a guardian. If the child is over 18 the child (now adult) can choose for themselves, together with their family. I am sympathetic to the "family-torn-apart" issue, but, the affected family members created the problem by entering this country illegally.

If the child was brought here illegally and they are not a citizen, they must leave. Otherwise, we've created a sub-citizen class of immigrants who claim only "squatters rights" to this country. It's bad for everyone. Yes... it's especially painful for those directly affected, but, the government's job is to look out for "the greater good".

Sew.... reap. Choices..... Consequences.

I'll certainly reconsider if you can convince me that allowing Obama's proposed practice is for "the greater good" of THIS country.

We are a nation of LAWS. Violate those laws and bear the weight of their consequences. A nation without borders is not a nation.

"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time".... Tony Baretta

[sjfcontrol]

If it would be inhuman, as obama claims, to send an "all but citizen" to a country where he may not even know the language, well, wouldn't it also be inhuman to tear a family asunder by deporting only the parents? In for a penny, in for a pound!

Maybe I just have a hard heart.

If the child was BORN IN THIS COUNTRY, they are a legal citizen. If they are under 18, and the parents get deported, the parents can choose to leave the child in the US with a guardian. If the child is over 18 the child (now adult) can choose for themselves, together with their family. I am sympathetic to the "family-torn-apart" issue, but, the affected family members created the problem by entering this country illegally.

If the child was brought here illegally and they are not a citizen, they must leave. Otherwise, we've created a sub-citizen class of immigrants who claim only "squatters rights" to this country. It's bad for everyone. Yes... it's especially painful for those directly affected, but, the government's job is to look out for "the greater good".

Sew.... reap. Choices..... Consequences.

I'll certainly reconsider if you can convince me that allowing Obama's proposed practice is for "the greater good" of THIS country.

We are a nation of LAWS. Violate those laws and bear the weight of their consequences. A nation without borders is not a nation.

"Don't do the crime if you can't do the time".... Tony Baretta

Now, where's that sarcasm icon that's so needed around here...
I was trying to point out the fallacy of the argument that they are only going to allow the "children" to remain here. Once they allow the children, they will have to allow the parents, too. And once they allow the parents of the illegal children, they'll have to allow the parents of the legal ones, too. Eventually they allow EVERYBODY to stay.

Unless I misunderstand you, we're on the same side.

[RoyGBiv]

Unless I misunderstand you, we're on the same side.

Ha.!... I did get your sarcasm... Although I read it as more of a "slippery slope" analogy...
But I can see where that may not have been clear from my quote/reply..
Funny.! Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[RoyGBiv]

Just to expand a bit on my post above...

I'm not 100% opposed to some "path" for long term illegals to achieve legal/permanent status.

I'm just saying that selective enforcement as proposed by Obama isn't a good start.

As part of a comprehensive solution..... We definitely need to weigh the humanitarian aspects of the problem together with the fact that forgiveness = incentive for others to follow the same path...

[sjfcontrol]

Well, my post pretty much WAS a slippery-slope argument.
I guess I'd prefer a "Camel nose in the tent" argument, but it's the same thing.
Not the only argument that can be made against this policy, but the one I was trying to get across.

[gdanaher]

You are all wound up about some non-citizens having to go back to whatever country they are FROM and do things the RIGHT way. I really cannot understand your mindset...standing up to someone subverting the law and making near-dictatorial proclamations is to "scream like school girls"...love the rhetorical flourish there, way to use absurdity, and I'd wager that to "grow some and pass meaningful legislation that would resolve the immigration problem" means an amnesty. And if you DON'T mean that, then please, by all means, enlighten us as to the great solution to the immigration issue that you have worked out. No other country in this world allows the kinds of things to go on that have been going on here in the USA...but we're supposed to? Ridiculous.

For our discussion, you are a gentleman who was born here in the USA but your parents were born in France and your mother was pregnant when she arrived. You know nothing of France. Through a slip up in paperwork, you are determined to be an illegal alien and you are deported to France. You speak no French. You know nothing of the country. You will have to live there for 5 years to get your paperwork handled correctly and get back in the country. How do you feel and how will you make a living? Same goes for a kid whose mother was pregnant but delivered a couple months BEFORE arriving. She grows up here, speaks English, gets an education, and wants to contribute. We as Americans have a substantial financial investment in each of these kids. Should we take advantage of this investment or just plow it under?

No, I do not mean general amnesty. Personally I am of the opinion that we should determine the ancestry of a lot of locally born CITIZENS and find a way to deport them back to the countries from which their parents came if they are unable to contribute positively to the American fabric.

My approach would not legalize anyone unless they had demonstrated they were worth keeping, individually, one by one. In 1986, Reagan arranged a blanket amnesty for millions of aliens, and ever since then, folks have been parked on the sidelines, waiting for the next amnesty. Under my plan a 16 yo kid who's a member of a gang gets to go home. A 30 yo guy with a felony record gets a free trip on the day of his conviction. For the 18 yo who enrolls in college, the military, or trade school, maintains grades, avoids misconduct, pays taxes, learns the language, they can stay. Maybe if they have parents here illegally and they do the same, perhaps they can stay as well. This nation has always been a melting pot for hard working individuals who came from humble beginnings and wanted to improve the lives of themselves and their families. I'm disgusted at the concept of a general amnesty. This applies to immigration as well to drug laws and anything else you can think of. It implies that if you break the law and wait long enough, society will make it all good. It's the wrong message to send. BUT, we do need to do something about the younger generation whose parents brought them here. They have the potential to make a positive contribution, but they also have the potential to remain underemployed, underpaid, and a drag on the economy. At the end of the day, they are here, they aren't going away, and the only issue is how do we handle them and do we permit them to help or hurt society. It's the Congress' call, but well, we all know how useful Congress has been the last decade or so.....

[RoyGBiv]

gd...

I'm open to some sort of constructive solution, possibly along the lines you suggest. However, without a comprehensive plan that addresses other important things such as border security (now that there's your "path" to legal status for those already here, that will certainly be an incentive for more folks to come here illegally) and the downstream effects of this new "amnesty" (not the least of which is more people seeking legal jobs adding to an already-high jobless rate), your plan is only half-baked and doomed to cause more trouble than it fixes.

Realize you are thinking with your heart when what is needed is less passion and more rational, thoughtful decision making, IMO.

[gdanaher]

The last time we had an amnesty, it was done in good faith but it bombed miserably. Reagan was trying to do the right thing, and his heart was in the right place, but it set us up for troubles down the line. Nobody on this forum has all the answers to this issue. It is far too complex. We (I'm not sure who WE is any more), we are permitting a total sub culture to exist within our borders. Here in Dallas you can be born, go to school, get a job and everything else and never learn English ---- Spanish newspapers, television, radio, church services, educational systems that are required to teach content in Spanish. Back in the day, a Russian would eventually learn English. Today, why bother? Assimilation actually can be a good thing. For those of you who state that immigration is a slippery slope, well, you are right on. No way to get around it. Who gets to stay and who doesn't? It does seem though that Congress could set some well defined rules and if someone qualifies then they are in. Or, deport everyone found to be illegal, regardless of their unique situations. Plan for mass riots and mayhem in the streets. Pass a constitutional amendment that would change the 14th amendment to withhold from the children born in the USA to illegal aliens US citizenship? There are too many things to consider. Make it hard for an illegal to get a job. Make it a real crime to steal a SS number, and make it worse on those who prey over the illegals by selling them fake documents. Penalize the employers who knowingly employ illegals without work permits. Make it hard to live illegally in this country. BUT, again, if you have spent a small fortune educating the children, is it really in our best interest to summarily deport them en masse? See, too many questions, not enough answers.