TSA Research Proposal To Body-Scan Pedestrians, Train Passen

[VMI77]

http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2 ... assengers/

Plus, training our youth for TSA America --these people were rounded up and searched getting off a train. So much for the rationale used to justify these searches at airports. The logic of searching people coming off a train, or getting on one for that matter, justifies searching you anywhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1B3Aubs ... r_embedded

[Beiruty]

Those technologies do exist and being used regularly. The only thing is that you people should carry with your life as usual and not concern yourself with those issues. Big brother is doing what it can to keep you safe. Carry on.

Hint: Sea ports where containers are shipped are being processed daily are also affected by this technology. So is the Border crossings, mobile scanners are there. Life is good, live on.

[VMI77]

Those technologies do exist and being used regularly. The only thing is that you people should carry with your life as usual and not concern yourself with those issues. Big brother is doing what it can to keep you safe. Carry on.

Hint: Sea ports where containers are shipped are being processed daily are also affected by this technology. So is the Border crossings, mobile scanners are there. Life is good, live on.

Are you serious? I hope not. Either all of the Constitution is enforced or eventually none of it will be. If they get away with searches like this you can say goodbye to the 2nd Amendment. I'm not even going to argue about the security theater involved in this, I'm merely concerned with the law and the Constitution. These searches at airports have been justified as a special case due to the nature of air travel. You may be ok with the police stopping you and searching you wherever you are, whenever they feel like it, but I"m not.

[Beiruty]

not to drag into another topic, but in short, if the Patriot Act is the law of the land, The constitution is dead or mostly meaningless. I am not starting a flame war or imply that I do agree with that, I am merely stating facts.

[VMI77]

not to drag into another topic, but in short, if the Patriot Act is the law of the land, The constitution is dead or mostly meaningless. I am not starting a flame war or imply that I do agree with that, I am merely stating facts.

I'd take a little less absolute position but I agree in general. The abuse of the commerce clause alone has killed most of it and removed just about all restraints on government. And while I think the Patriot Act is unconstitutional on it's face in practice it hasn't been a wholesale abrogation. When you can be stopped and searched anywhere without probable cause we'll be shoveling dirt on the coffin.

[bnc]

Back around Thanksgiving time when this started kicking off the TSA was already testing out search units in train stations, bus stations, and even a highway checkpoint where they were x-raying big rigs (somewhere in GA if I remember correctly).

Between the commerce clause and the general welfare clause there is essentially no limits on the government. The thing that worries me the most is that as I study the issue it may very well mean what we are being told it means.

[chasfm11]

Those technologies do exist and being used regularly. The only thing is that you people should carry with your life as usual and not concern yourself with those issues. Big brother is doing what it can to keep you safe. Carry on.

Hint: Sea ports where containers are shipped are being processed daily are also affected by this technology. So is the Border crossings, mobile scanners are there. Life is good, live on.

Are you serious? I hope not. Either all of the Constitution is enforced or eventually none of it will be. If they get away with searches like this you can say goodbye to the 2nd Amendment. I'm not even going to argue about the security theater involved in this, I'm merely concerned with the law and the Constitution. These searches at airports have been justified as a special case due to the nature of air travel. You may be ok with the police stopping you and searching you wherever you are, whenever they feel like it, but I"m not.

Comrade, Comrade. I'm not sure why you are so concerned. Unreasonable searches are necessary because Comrade Napolitano has deemed them so and you don't want to make her angry now, do you? Seriously, with my tin foil hat firmly in place, I believe they (TSA and other branches) are pressing to see how much the public is going to let them get away with. Every time they get away with something unchallenged, they have a further intrusion planned shortly afterward to expand the Federal powers.

I'm sorry but the searches at the airports are NOT necessary because:
1. They are not finding the stuff that they are looking for. If you were to see the results of the internal TSA security tests, you would be appalled at the percentage of failures to detect.
2. The terrorists are one step ahead. While the TSA is trying to prevent a re-occurrence of a past problem, the terrorists are off doing something else. The idea is to keep our security apparatus tied up in their shorts, trying the prevent a vast array of things from coming on board the planes. It will be a big surprise to everyone when they again use the cargo hold (as they did in the Pan-Am bombing)

I keep wondering when the good citizens of the country are going to say "enough". Apparently, that time hasn't come yet.

[VMI77]

Those technologies do exist and being used regularly. The only thing is that you people should carry with your life as usual and not concern yourself with those issues. Big brother is doing what it can to keep you safe. Carry on.

Hint: Sea ports where containers are shipped are being processed daily are also affected by this technology. So is the Border crossings, mobile scanners are there. Life is good, live on.

Are you serious? I hope not. Either all of the Constitution is enforced or eventually none of it will be. If they get away with searches like this you can say goodbye to the 2nd Amendment. I'm not even going to argue about the security theater involved in this, I'm merely concerned with the law and the Constitution. These searches at airports have been justified as a special case due to the nature of air travel. You may be ok with the police stopping you and searching you wherever you are, whenever they feel like it, but I"m not.

Comrade, Comrade. I'm not sure why you are so concerned. Unreasonable searches are necessary because Comrade Napolitano has deemed them so and you don't want to make her angry now, do you? Seriously, with my tin foil hat firmly in place, I believe they (TSA and other branches) are pressing to see how much the public is going to let them get away with. Every time they get away with something unchallenged, they have a further intrusion planned shortly afterward to expand the Federal powers.

I'm sorry but the searches at the airports are NOT necessary because:
1. They are not finding the stuff that they are looking for. If you were to see the results of the internal TSA security tests, you would be appalled at the percentage of failures to detect.
2. The terrorists are one step ahead. While the TSA is trying to prevent a re-occurrence of a past problem, the terrorists are off doing something else. The idea is to keep our security apparatus tied up in their shorts, trying the prevent a vast array of things from coming on board the planes. It will be a big surprise to everyone when they again use the cargo hold (as they did in the Pan-Am bombing)

I keep wondering when the good citizens of the country are going to say "enough". Apparently, that time hasn't come yet.

I'm not saying airport searches are necessary or constitutional. I'm just saying the excuse used to circumvent the constitution is that air travel is unique. In fact, I think airport security is mostly nonsense, and the passenger searches are complete nonsense. What we have is security feel good theater. For one thing, all it takes to get access to aircraft in most airports, at best, is swiping an access card at an unmanned checkpoint. Getting access to aircraft is surprisingly easy. If a 16 year old kid can climb into the wheel well of a jet, then a terrorist can access a plane to plant explosives. Furthermore, even if that wasn't the case and the passenger screening was 100% effective, all a terrorist has to do is walk into an airport and blow himself up in the line waiting to be screened --just like they did recently in Russia.

It wouldn't make them anymore effective but I think airport searches could be constitutional if they weren't conducted by the government --in other words, if each airline determined whether or not to search passengers boarding their planes as a condition of travel on their aircraft (and there could be competition among airlines on that basis). I think the reason they don't do that is because they don't want to take responsibility for either side of the issue --failing to detect something dangerous or angering passengers-- so they're quite happy to pass it off to the feds.

But I don't think the "security" is really about "security." I see it in my own industry where the feds are requiring all kinds of nonsensical "security" measures that have virtually nothing to do with real security and are 90% show and pretense. I think the motivation behind the TSA is largely the same: it's a big show; but it's also about power and paydays; and I believe it is also to some degree about conditioning the population to accept and obey. That's why they've moving it out to train stations and searching people getting off the train. If that flies then they've circumvented the logic that justifies air travel searches and they can search anyone, anyplace, any time (of course, when I say "anyone," I don't mean any of the "important" people who aren't subject to security now, like politicians and their friends who fly around on private jets).

[chasfm11]

But I don't think the "security" is really about "security." I see it in my own industry where the feds are requiring all kinds of nonsensical "security" measures that have virtually nothing to do with real security and are 90% show and pretense. I think the motivation behind the TSA is largely the same: it's a big show; but it's also about power and paydays; and I believe it is also to some degree about conditioning the population to accept and obey. That's why they've moving it out to train stations and searching people getting off the train. If that flies then they've circumvented the logic that justifies air travel searches and they can search anyone, anyplace, any time (of course, when I say "anyone," I don't mean any of the "important" people who aren't subject to security now, like politicians and their friends who fly around on private jets).

I couldn't agree more. This problem is not in just the current administration. Sarbanes Oxley was supposed to be a response to the lack of regulation that led the the Enron debacle. It goes well beyond that and is more about power and control than about preventing fraud and corruption.

They are definitely trying to teach us to accept and obey. The punishments for those who don't appear to be worse than the punishments for those who were trying to commit the crimes for which security is put into place. That's just nuts.

[TexasGal]

[VMI77]

The punishments for those who don't appear to be worse than the punishments for those who were trying to commit the crimes for which security is put into place. That's just nuts.

This describes the regulatory regime in the electric utility industry now as well. We've even been told that objecting to being regulated may invite extra punishment. But this aspect of the regulations is undeniable: proving obedience to the regulations is all that matters, not actual performance. So I'm inclined to think that obedience has become the primary goal of all current regulation.