Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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baldeagle
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

#16

Post by baldeagle »

healthinsp wrote:Maybe I'm naïve...

Something that I fail to understand, and maybe I'm wrong, is how she can make the assumption that if the POTUS ordered the ATF, or military, or federal law enforcement to turn their weapons on their own mothers, fathers, brothers, friends, and family they would do it.

I don't believe they would.

I firmly believe if my friends in the military were ordered to come to my house and take my weapons they would deny that order as an illegal order.

Like I said, maybe I'm the one living in a fantasy world.
The problem with this thinking is that it ignores history, and you can be certain that our "leaders" are aware of that history. When you want to take control of people, you don't send their friends to confiscate their property. You send their enemies or strangers. Your friends wouldn't be coming to your door. People you've never met and who have no loyalty to the Constitution would be. By then, it would be too late to resist.
The Constitution preserves the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation where the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. James Madison
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VoiceofReason
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

#17

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baldeagle wrote:
healthinsp wrote:Maybe I'm naïve...

Something that I fail to understand, and maybe I'm wrong, is how she can make the assumption that if the POTUS ordered the ATF, or military, or federal law enforcement to turn their weapons on their own mothers, fathers, brothers, friends, and family they would do it.

I don't believe they would.

I firmly believe if my friends in the military were ordered to come to my house and take my weapons they would deny that order as an illegal order.

Like I said, maybe I'm the one living in a fantasy world.
The problem with this thinking is that it ignores history, and you can be certain that our "leaders" are aware of that history. When you want to take control of people, you don't send their friends to confiscate their property. You send their enemies or strangers. Your friends wouldn't be coming to your door. People you've never met and who have no loyalty to the Constitution would be. By then, it would be too late to resist.
It’s never too late to resist.
God Bless America, and please hurry.
When I was young I knew all the answers. When I got older I started to realize I just hadn’t quite understood the questions.-Me
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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

#18

Post by The Annoyed Man »

VoiceofReason wrote:
baldeagle wrote:
healthinsp wrote:Maybe I'm naïve...

Something that I fail to understand, and maybe I'm wrong, is how she can make the assumption that if the POTUS ordered the ATF, or military, or federal law enforcement to turn their weapons on their own mothers, fathers, brothers, friends, and family they would do it.

I don't believe they would.

I firmly believe if my friends in the military were ordered to come to my house and take my weapons they would deny that order as an illegal order.

Like I said, maybe I'm the one living in a fantasy world.
The problem with this thinking is that it ignores history, and you can be certain that our "leaders" are aware of that history. When you want to take control of people, you don't send their friends to confiscate their property. You send their enemies or strangers. Your friends wouldn't be coming to your door. People you've never met and who have no loyalty to the Constitution would be. By then, it would be too late to resist.
It’s never too late to resist.
Yes. But it can become too late to resist effectively. That's why the "tipping point" is always sooner than people are either expecting OR prepared for. This is why vigilance AND preparation are equally important. So, let him who is not prepared, GET prepared, praying that it never becomes necessary.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"

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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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Pawpaw wrote:As a retired serviceman, I'd like to think our troops wouldn't obey those illegal and immoral orders, but I'm not 100% sure.

Does anyone remember the Bonus Army?
In case anyone hasn't noticed, barry sotero has been eliminating his opposition in the flag ranks of the military.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... s-military

Yes there are many who will honor their enlistment oath. Not all will. I hold this the same as the public in general. If and when the poo hits the air mover, some of your neighbors will be your ally, some will be your bitter enemy and try to kill you.

Humans are no different now than thousands of years ago.

Anygunanywhere
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VoiceofReason
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

#20

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baldeagle wrote:“So What Line Has To Be Crossed… Before We Start Mowing Them Down To Make Our Point?”
Somehow I don't think that would work out quite the way she has in mind.
The gun grabbers are losing on all fronts and starting to panic. They are resorting to name calling and threats of violence because all other tactics have failed. All their lies have been disproven. Obummer and Holder have been caught using underhanded methods to take away people’s rights under the 2nd Amendment and it has hurt their cause.

It wouldn’t surprise me if a liberal tried to shoot up some place in order to prove their stance on “gun violence”. From what I read on the web, there are liberals out there just whacky enough to try.
God Bless America, and please hurry.
When I was young I knew all the answers. When I got older I started to realize I just hadn’t quite understood the questions.-Me
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

#21

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Mike.B wrote:
healthinsp wrote:Maybe I'm naïve...
Something that I fail to understand, and maybe I'm wrong, is how she can make the assumption that if the POTUS ordered the ATF, or military, or federal law enforcement to turn their weapons on their own mothers, fathers, brothers, friends, and family they would do it.
I don't believe they would.
Somebody is enforcing the gun laws in Washington.

I will make the argument that no one is enforcing the gun laws in Washington. Lawful citizens are following the law and the criminals are disrespecting the law like they do all over the country. Read any recent news article about the shootings in Chicago.

As far as the military confiscating firearms, I believe that would create much distention in the ranks. As a 33 year veteran, may times during my career I took an oath that included, "... to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic." As a second amendment rights supporter I would interpret that oath so that I would not have taken enforcement action to remove guns from law abiding US citizens. As with all things there are 2 sides to the story and I am guessing that there are people in the military that would not agree with me. I also believe (and hope!) that it is a small number that disagree,

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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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tk1700 wrote:
Mike.B wrote:
healthinsp wrote:Maybe I'm naïve...
Something that I fail to understand, and maybe I'm wrong, is how she can make the assumption that if the POTUS ordered the ATF, or military, or federal law enforcement to turn their weapons on their own mothers, fathers, brothers, friends, and family they would do it.
I don't believe they would.
Somebody is enforcing the gun laws in Washington.

I will make the argument that no one is enforcing the gun laws in Washington. Lawful citizens are following the law and the criminals are disrespecting the law like they do all over the country. Read any recent news article about the shootings in Chicago.

As far as the military confiscating firearms, I believe that would create much distention in the ranks. As a 33 year veteran, may times during my career I took an oath that included, "... to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic." As a second amendment rights supporter I would interpret that oath so that I would not have taken enforcement action to remove guns from law abiding US citizens. As with all things there are 2 sides to the story and I am guessing that there are people in the military that would not agree with me. I also believe (and hope!) that it is a small number that disagree,
it would create a firestorm in the ranks for sure, as a 19 year still serving soldier I would not obey such an unlawful order nor allow anyone in my company to follow such an unlawful order
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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JP171 wrote:
it would create a firestorm in the ranks for sure, as a 19 year still serving soldier I would not obey such an unlawful order nor allow anyone in my company to follow such an unlawful order
This is one reason why the vilification of private firearms ownership is so important to the gun grabber's long term strategy.
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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OK, You're an NCO and you refuse an order you believe to be unconstitutional. The next order you receive will be to stand down until your replacement arrives. (actually you'll probably be confined.) What do you do now? He will follow that order. He wouldn't be your replacement if he wouldn't. By following this order, you're enabling the completion of the previous order which you believe to be unconstitutional. Are you ready to start shooting? Your CO is in the same boat. The guys who won't follow orders will be weeded out. Are probably already being quietly weeded out.
And they are never going to give you a clear cut demarcation point. My understanding of the original intent of the second amendment was for the public to keep and bear arms sufficient to remove (overthrow) a corrupt government. I can think of no other meaning that Thomas Jefferson could have had in mind when he said, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." And yet it is now law of the land that American Citizens may not keep automatic weapons. In fact, both the weapons that we may legally keep, and where we may bear them are carefully proscribed, and greatly limited. These laws are enforced every day. I believe that the founding fathers would be every bit as appalled, or maybe incredulous, that we have accepted these limitations, as we are about the prospect of gun registration, (surely a first step toward confiscation) and the limitation to carry onto to federal property. Federal property is, after all, the very place you will find the scoundrels that will have to be removed from office once these type of orders start coming down. This won't be stopped by a few good officers, NCOs, and enlisted people willing to throw away their careers or lives in a grand futile gesture. It will take the whole of the people.
I think we are a very different people than the founding fathers. The people who would have to stand up and risk the lives of their families to overthrow these tyrants are, as a whole, the ones who put them in office. I hope the tide is turning. My political views have certainly take a complete 180.

Edit: Actually my political views have changed very little. It's just that what I believe to be the best path to those goals now lies with a different political party. I was never an enthusiastic supporter of the man presently in the White House. There was a time when I believed him to be a better alternative than the other option. I now believe that to have been a horrible miscalculation, and plan to do everything in my power to help those trying to reign him in.
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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BigGuy wrote: Edit: I was never an enthusiastic supporter of the man presently in the White House. There was a time when I believed him to be a better alternative than the other option. I now believe that to have been a horrible miscalculation, and plan to do everything in my power to help those trying to reign him in.
There's an incredibly huge understatement. Hopefully the greater of two evils won't sway you again in the future. It would be great if we could have a non-evil choice but barring that miracle we must at least minimize the evil.
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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tk1700 wrote:As far as the military confiscating firearms, I believe that would create much distention in the ranks. As a 33 year veteran, may times during my career I took an oath that included, "... to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic." As a second amendment rights supporter I would interpret that oath so that I would not have taken enforcement action to remove guns from law abiding US citizens. As with all things there are 2 sides to the story and I am guessing that there are people in the military that would not agree with me. I also believe (and hope!) that it is a small number that disagree,
Thank you for your service. Here's the problem with your statement....although I really do appreciate your sentiment, which I agree is correct..... you interpret your oath to mean that you would not take an enforcement action. Let's say hypothetically that Congress passes a bill which the POTUS signs into law, making all firearms illegal except for revolvers of caliber smaller than .40, and the law gives citizens 30 days to turn in anything that isn't a revolver of small enough caliber. Now, let's say that half of the people who own AR15s (to pick one weapon type at random) refuse to turn them in. Once 30 days has passed, these people are no longer "law-abiding". See what I'm getting at? They were law-abiding, but now they're not, and not for something they did, but rather for something they didn't......because an out of control federal government (full of people like the liberal writer in the OP's post) has arbitrarily criminalized them.

Now, I am NOT saying that you would take enforcement action against them, but a certain number of military personnel, particularly if they come from disarmed regions with a cultural bias against guns, might be willing to do so, and here's why:

Those gun owners who refuse to turn them in will have, in the eyes of the law, declared themselves to be law-breakers, not law-abiders. Yes, you and others who serve in the armed forces took an oath to defend the Constitution against enemies foreign and domestic, but so did Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Diane Feinstein when they were sworn into office!!! The problem is that they interpret the Constitution (incorrectly) to allow them to infringe on gun ownership any way they see fit. Why shouldn't we expect that some in the military wouldn't have the same view? I don't ask in order to be insulting, but do you see where I'm going with this? That is the problem with interpretation.

We have to understand that the Constitution needs no interpretation. It says what it says, plain and simple, and the Founders actually went to great lengths to write it that way on purpose. They deliberately used language which would be understood by common, average, American citizens when they used Ben Franklin's postal system to circulate copies of the document all around the colonies so that The People would have an understanding of the underpinnings of their new government. There would be no official government functionaries accompanying these copies being circulated, to explain (interpret) what it meant. If a man could read, he could understand it, plain and simple, directly stated, in plain language. This idea that the Constitution needs interpretation is one of the most dangerously insidious concepts to invade the political landscape. There IS no interpretation that has any validity other than the Founders' original intent......and knowing that future generations might be fickle enough to twist their meaning, they ALSO left us the Federalist Papers so that there could be no doubt. ANY view of Constitutional meaning that falls outside that scope is dangerously seditionist.....and yet, more people are confused about its meaning today than ever before.

The intended purpose of the SCOTUS wasn't to tell us what the Constitution says; we already know what it says.....or we should. SCOTUS's intended purpose was to decide whether actions taken by Congress, the Executive, or the lower courts were consistent with the plain language of the Constitution. Other than by amendment, the Constitution is an unchanging bedrock, a framework upon which all else is hung....and when amended, those amendments become part of that bedrock. When politicians, bureaucrats, LEOs, soldiers, and voters start interpreting what it means, that is when we get into deep kimchee. Their "interpretations" have but one purpose: to push back against the limits which the Constitution places upon their authority.

I've read somewhere that, the AR15 being the most popular selling pattern of rifle in the country for years now, there are several million of them in private hands. Even if you take into account that some people have more than one of them, you have to figure that at least a million homes will have to be assaulted.....just to take the ARs....and that doesn't count all the other guns that would be covered by such a ban. Now you're no longer talking about self-made criminals ("self-made" for having refused to turn in their guns), you're now talking about self-declared revolutionaries.....in the millions....and a whole lot of dead people on both sides.....all because people who took an oath had a different understanding of what the Constitution means than you or I do.

I particularly like what the Bible says about oath-taking in Matthew 5:33-37:
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
The various oaths of office, or of military service ask the individual to swear, Yes or No, to uphold and/or defend the Constitution......not to interpret it.

Please don't think I direct my comments at you specifically. This is more of a general rant.
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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Post by mayor »

The Annoyed Man wrote:...rant.
and a very good rant it was IMHO.
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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I agree with TAM and BigGuy but I also think a nation wide gun confiscation by the military is extremely unlikely. I think we can look to Canada, the UK, and Australia for the way any gun ban is likely to be implemented. The government will encourage your neighbors and relatives to turn you in and if you have what has been illegally made into an illegal weapon you may then get a visit from the local SWAT team. And of course, they won't be visiting the homes of any politicians or judges no matter what the circumstances --except perhaps for a few that have dared to oppose the ruling class dictates on this or some other matter important to our oligarchs and their henchmen.
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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

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Post by The Annoyed Man »

VMI77 wrote:I agree with TAM and BigGuy but I also think a nation wide gun confiscation by the military is extremely unlikely. I think we can look to Canada, the UK, and Australia for the way any gun ban is likely to be implemented. The government will encourage your neighbors and relatives to turn you in and if you have what has been illegally made into an illegal weapon you may then get a visit from the local SWAT team. And of course, they won't be visiting the homes of any politicians or judges no matter what the circumstances --except perhaps for a few that have dared to oppose the ruling class dictates on this or some other matter important to our oligarchs and their henchmen.
VMI77, I agree with you that the likelihood is small.

The likelihood that I will be exposed to the flu on any given day is also small. And yet, when I am in the presence of one who is sniffling and obviously not feeling well, my first instinct is to protect myself from exposure to whatever ails them. But that requires me to be vigilant, so that I will notice that sick person, before I can practice any kind of avoidance.

So similarly, I, we, have to always be vigilant for signs of the Constitutional Flu, and take steps to remediate the situation early.......so that we don't have to face Constitutional life-support later.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

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Re: Liberal writer fantasizes about killing Americans

#30

Post by BigGuy »

mayor wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:...rant.
and a very good rant it was IMHO.
:iagree:
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