target load vs carry load-If Worse Comes to Worse

[hounddog]

I'm not trying to sound like any kind of an expert, cause I'm sure not one. But I read an article recently discussing this issue, and it sounded pretty wise to me. The man recommended using only FMG or hardball ammo in .45 caliber because of the size and knockdaown power. But they advised using Hollow Points in the smaller and much faster calibers like 9mm. The reasoning on the 9mm is that it's traveling at such speeds as to pass through someone or something and possibly injur innocent bystanders. Wheras a hollowpoint would enter the target and expand enough to not travel farther than necessary. I read a lot in a couple of gun magazines, and I'm learning quite a bit in my senior years. When taking the time to think about all of this, it sounded pretty logical to me. Please don't think I'm trying to be a rocket scientist. Just trying to share a little something.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm not trying to sound like any kind of an expert, cause I'm sure not one. But I read an article recently discussing this issue, and it sounded pretty wise to me. The man recommended using only FMG or hardball ammo in .45 caliber because of the size and knockdaown power. But they advised using Hollow Points in the smaller and much faster calibers like 9mm. The reasoning on the 9mm is that it's traveling at such speeds as to pass through someone or something and possibly injur innocent bystanders. Wheras a hollowpoint would enter the target and expand enough to not travel farther than necessary. I read a lot in a couple of gun magazines, and I'm learning quite a bit in my senior years. When taking the time to think about all of this, it sounded pretty logical to me. Please don't think I'm trying to be a rocket scientist. Just trying to share a little something.

Please accept that nothing in my response is meant to be disrespectful.....

FMJ vs JHP:
I can tell you from personal experience....... a .45 FMJ WILL pass clean through someone.....and can hurt whomever is standing directly behind them. A .45 is a penetrator because of its sheer mass. KNOWING that it can pass through and hit someone you hadn't intended to hit, and KNOWING that if it passes through, the target will not receive the full "benefit" of having been shot, why on earth would you use an FMJ in .45, if a JHP was available? It's almost like the man in the article was saying that a .45 is "too much" gun for self-defense..... as though it would be inhumane or immoral to use a JHP if you're shooting a .45. Meaning no disrespect, but that is a preposterous position, and here is why.......

IF someone needs to be shot, then it matters not one whit from a moral perspective what caliber you shoot them with, what kind of bullet you used, or how many times you shot them. Not one whit. Try looking at it this way: if the need to shoot is legitimate, then the choice of caliber, bullet design, and firearms platform are irrelevant. On the other hand, if the need to shoot is NOT legitimate, then NO combination of platform/caliber/bullet design will make it legitimate. So, bullet choice becomes a practical matter. JHPs, in almost all situations, will be the better tactical choice..... in any common self-defense caliber.....because in most cases, they will stop an attack faster than FMJs. It may not be true in the individual attack you are involved in; but it is statistically true; so why not go with the better bet?

Next, getting a chest full of buckshot is FAR worse than getting hit with a .45. WAAAAAAAAYYYY worse. Following the logic of the man in the article you read, you should never use a shotgun to defend yourself because it is even more effective than a .45 caliber JHP (which is more effective than a FMJ). Let's unpack that logic in the reverse direction......If you CANNOT justify using a JHP, then you can't really justify using an FMJ. And if you can't justify using an FMJ, then you can't really justify shooting the other person. SO..... unless there are specific tactical reasons for why an FMJ would be the superior choice (and those are limited reasons), or unless JHPs simply aren't available for purchase, then it ALWAYS makes more sense to carry a JHP.

"KNOCKDOWN" POWER:
This is a myth. Exactly ZERO handgun bullets have "knockdown power". Not even the mighty .44 Magnum is a "knockdown" caliber. There are thousands of documented cases over the years of gunshot people refusing to go down after having absorbed multiple hits, in all sorts of calibers, with both hollowpoints and FMJs. The very best you can hope for is that the bullet will hit a critical structure, causing either a momentary or permanent lapse of consciousness or blood pressure, in which case they might collapse......but they won't be "knocked down". Even rifle bullets, which are FAR more devastating than handgun bullets, won't always knock someone down. But in most cases, unless that critical structure has been hit, attackers usually give up the fight because getting shot hurts pretty badly, or because they are suddenly afraid of dying and they collapse psychologically. Pain, and psychological collapse.

There is a saying in the community...... that a handgun is useful for fighting your way back to the long gun you should have never put down. Handguns are not magical killing devices. Something like 80% of all gunshot victims survive being shot. So going to a less effective bullet design unless there are specific tactical situations which would give that design a preference, is like hamstringing your ability to defend yourself.

One last comment, modern 9mm bullet designs are just about as effective and penetrate just about as deeply as .45 bullet designs. So in real life application, as long as your minimum diameter is equal to or greater than a certain size (approximately .38/9mm) advocating FMJ for one caliber but not for another is kind of an artificial standard with no real meaning.

NOW, for smaller calibers, like .32 and .25, then maybe a FMJ is the better choice. But most of us aren't carrying guns that small.

[Jim Beaux]

I'm not trying to sound like any kind of an expert, cause I'm sure not one. But I read an article recently discussing this issue, and it sounded pretty wise to me. The man recommended using only FMG or hardball ammo in .45 caliber because of the size and knockdaown power. But they advised using Hollow Points in the smaller and much faster calibers like 9mm. The reasoning on the 9mm is that it's traveling at such speeds as to pass through someone or something and possibly injur innocent bystanders. Wheras a hollowpoint would enter the target and expand enough to not travel farther than necessary. I read a lot in a couple of gun magazines, and I'm learning quite a bit in my senior years. When taking the time to think about all of this, it sounded pretty logical to me. Please don't think I'm trying to be a rocket scientist. Just trying to share a little something.

In the matter of hitting bystanders, some take issue with a round potentially passing through a body while overlooking the probability of missing the target. The remedy is target practice.

[C-dub]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Do the best you can with what you have. I suspect we all have far more FMJ rounds than JHP for any caliber we are able to keep in stock. If worse comes to worse, just do the best you can with what you got and don't worry so much about not having JHP or whatever is better. If FMJ is all you have, I doubt you'll be spending too much time fretting over not having any JHP and will instead be spending that time loading up all your spare mags with as much FMJ as you can.

[jmra]

[rbwhatever1]

Very true C-dub...

[VMI77]

The one reason I can think of (besides not having a choice) to use FMJ in a .45 is that many 1911's don't reliably feed some HPs. The less conical and flatter the nose, the greater the problem. You could polish the feed ramp I suppose, as some do, but I find that sufficiently conical HP's will feed just fine. Massad Ayoob vigorously objects to using FMJ in a CC gun.