Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

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Oldgringo
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#16

Post by Oldgringo »

Pawpaw wrote:
cb1000rider wrote:Is anyone arguing that people convicted of domestic abuse (ie, commonly called "criminals" on this forum) should retain their 2nd amendment rights?
I will argue that it's not right. Why is "domestic abuse" the only misdemeanor that will cost you your 2nd amendment rights? If it's that serious a crime, it should be a felony.

Do you have any idea how easy it is to be convicted of domestic abuse? All that is necessary is for the female to call it into 911. The police will show up and tell you that they are required by law to take someone to jail and you're elected. Then you will have the opportunity to post bail. Remember, the person who put you there now has control of all of your money so good luck. After several months drag by, you will finally get your day in court. She says you did & you say you didn't. There are no bruises or other evidence, but that doesn't matter. The judge will still pronounce you guilty. Congratulations. You have now lost the right to own a gun and you didn't do anything.

I have seen it, personally, with a close family member. I was sitting in the courtroom when "judgement" was passed on a purely "he said - she said". The guy loses.
My thoughts exactly - "he said, she said". Sounds similar to a sexual harassment allegation - the accused is guilty until proven innocent.

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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#17

Post by CoffeeNut »

"Confiscation" or rather voluntary surrender of your firearms after implementation of a protective order is already happening in every state in the country including Texas. The articles point out that Dallas had fallen way behind and no one was actually doing the confiscating since nothing was written into law about who was actually supposed to do it. Dallas' shortcomings became apparent after a deputy and spouse were shot by a gun a domestic abuser should not have had in the first place. If you're a domestic abuser you lose your firearm rights either temporarily or permanently and since federal law says you can't have guns your guns should be taken away. I don't understand some of the controversy in the above comments.

Heck, in California they have a dedicated gun squad to raid convicts houses to forcibly remove guns regardless of where the felon/parolee is living. What Dallas is doing is right in line with the law and doesn't trample the Constitution. They just have to take them to a gun range and surrender them.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#18

Post by CoffeeNut »

Oldgringo wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:
cb1000rider wrote:Is anyone arguing that people convicted of domestic abuse (ie, commonly called "criminals" on this forum) should retain their 2nd amendment rights?
I will argue that it's not right. Why is "domestic abuse" the only misdemeanor that will cost you your 2nd amendment rights? If it's that serious a crime, it should be a felony.

Do you have any idea how easy it is to be convicted of domestic abuse? All that is necessary is for the female to call it into 911. The police will show up and tell you that they are required by law to take someone to jail and you're elected. Then you will have the opportunity to post bail. Remember, the person who put you there now has control of all of your money so good luck. After several months drag by, you will finally get your day in court. She says you did & you say you didn't. There are no bruises or other evidence, but that doesn't matter. The judge will still pronounce you guilty. Congratulations. You have now lost the right to own a gun and you didn't do anything.

I have seen it, personally, with a close family member. I was sitting in the courtroom when "judgement" was passed on a purely "he said - she said". The guy loses.
My thoughts exactly - "he said, she said". Sounds similar to a sexual harassment allegation - the accused is guilty until proven innocent.
:iagree: with the above completely but the law is the law. Maybe a major gun rights organization should look at getting the law changed so natural rights are not effected by an allegation that takes almost nothing to prove a crime was committed. Until then I think those convicted for domestic violence should lose their guns as the law states.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#19

Post by baldeagle »

Pawpaw wrote: will argue that it's not right. Why is "domestic abuse" the only misdemeanor that will cost you your 2nd amendment rights? If it's that serious a crime, it should be a felony.
It should be a felony if it's proven with evidence.
Pawpaw wrote:Do you have any idea how easy it is to be convicted of domestic abuse? All that is necessary is for the female to call it into 911. The police will show up and tell you that they are required by law to take someone to jail and you're elected. Then you will have the opportunity to post bail. Remember, the person who put you there now has control of all of your money so good luck. After several months drag by, you will finally get your day in court. She says you did & you say you didn't. There are no bruises or other evidence, but that doesn't matter. The judge will still pronounce you guilty. Congratulations. You have now lost the right to own a gun and you didn't do anything.

I have seen it, personally, with a close family member. I was sitting in the courtroom when "judgement" was passed on a purely "he said - she said". The guy loses.
So what do we do with real abusers? Let them off? Your point is well taken, however, here's another side of the story.

My family and I were living in an apartment a number of years back. Around the corner from us was a woman with two children. Her husband was so abusive that she left him. After the fourth court restraining order requiring him to stay away, he walked into her house and shot her dead in front of her (and his) children. The court had taped recordings of him threatening to kill her on multiple occasions. Apparently it's not possible to arrest someone for making threats, even after it's been proven that they beat their spouse.

The law doesn't take real domestic abuse seriously enough. According to your story, they also tend to convict on domestic abuse with no corroborating evidence. That is a dichotomy that is unexplainable.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#20

Post by Oldgringo »

{Snippity doo-dah}

:iagree: There are definitely folk who should not have any guns for a variety of VALID reasons.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#21

Post by Pawpaw »

baldeagle wrote:
Pawpaw wrote: will argue that it's not right. Why is "domestic abuse" the only misdemeanor that will cost you your 2nd amendment rights? If it's that serious a crime, it should be a felony.
It should be a felony if it's proven with evidence.
Pawpaw wrote:Do you have any idea how easy it is to be convicted of domestic abuse? All that is necessary is for the female to call it into 911. The police will show up and tell you that they are required by law to take someone to jail and you're elected. Then you will have the opportunity to post bail. Remember, the person who put you there now has control of all of your money so good luck. After several months drag by, you will finally get your day in court. She says you did & you say you didn't. There are no bruises or other evidence, but that doesn't matter. The judge will still pronounce you guilty. Congratulations. You have now lost the right to own a gun and you didn't do anything.

I have seen it, personally, with a close family member. I was sitting in the courtroom when "judgement" was passed on a purely "he said - she said". The guy loses.
So what do we do with real abusers? Let them off? Your point is well taken, however, here's another side of the story.

My family and I were living in an apartment a number of years back. Around the corner from us was a woman with two children. Her husband was so abusive that she left him. After the fourth court restraining order requiring him to stay away, he walked into her house and shot her dead in front of her (and his) children. The court had taped recordings of him threatening to kill her on multiple occasions. Apparently it's not possible to arrest someone for making threats, even after it's been proven that they beat their spouse.

The law doesn't take real domestic abuse seriously enough. According to your story, they also tend to convict on domestic abuse with no corroborating evidence. That is a dichotomy that is unexplainable.
I agree with you completely,if it is proven with evidence. The problem today is that the system is terribly, horribly broken. Any time you can be accused of a crime and then convicted with absolutely no evidence, but at the whim of some judge, then there can be no justice. "Due process" just fell on it's face.

In the case I mentioned above, I think the big mistake was following his lawyer's advice and waiving a jury trial. Unfortunately, I don't have much more faith if it's a jury trial.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#22

Post by cb1000rider »

Pawpaw wrote: I will argue that it's not right. Why is "domestic abuse" the only misdemeanor that will cost you your 2nd amendment rights? If it's that serious a crime, it should be a felony.
I don't care what category it's in. It's a violent crime and indicates a lack of good judgment. In my mind, a propensity toward violence and a lack of good judgment should probably cost you firearm ownership for a while. Sure, due process can fall on it's face, but if we stand on that alone, why not let out all the criminals? We've had death penalty cases without any physical evidence, but still a lot of people continue to support that as valid legal process and appropriate justice. Taking firearms for a while is certainly less permanent.

Those indicating how easy it is to pin the tail on the donkey, isn't that the same with assault or just about any "I'll sign the complaint" crime? A conviction should.. And I say should.. require more than just that.

Now the whole protective order thing, that's a bit more one sided and ridiculous.

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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#23

Post by n5wd »

As far as domestic abuse being only a misdemeanor, it is, If and only If it is assault by contact. The use of a weapon in the assault (any kind of weapon or item used as a weapon) raises the severity up the ladder, and IIRC a gun or firearm raises the agg assault to a felony.

I've mentioned before that I worked as a field medic and as a Supervisor for our local EMS agency, MedStar, for almost 16 years of the 25 I was a paramedic. Some of that other time, I was the only paramedic on a vollie fire department in a Fort Worth suburb.

While the kiddoh calls where I couldn't do anything for a small child hurt my soul the most, it was the domestic abuse calls that made me the maddest. It was a domestic violence/abuse call where I came within inches of having a knife stuck into my chest. It was a domestic violence repeat victim where I ran my first murder victim (a young woman who died with her two kids watching everything that was going on) and yes, she had a protective order in force, but just like bad guys don't care about a 30.06 sign, scum like this woman's ex don't care about protective orders.

Too many times we hear of a woman who is beaten again, shot, knifed, or simply hurt very badly by a former domestic partner. The law doesn't do a good job of protecting the people, whether they're male or female. Taking the gun away IS THE LAW and most jurisdictions in Texas din't follow the law. What Dallas Co. does is introduce a way to do it short of having gun squads, like the do in Mass, New York, California, etc. we can come up with better ways to do it, and Dallas Co's way is but one way to remove just one type of weapon away from abusers.

I can see the arguements about the protective orders. The ones where I have had to submit affadavits under subpeonae have all been legit, as far as I know. Have there been some innocent folks that have suffered because of a PO? Perhaps so. But, letting everyone keep their guns is not a real answer.

NICS is history and gun folks are mostly living with it. We (the law-abiding CHL people that we are) can live with this, too, until someone finds a better way to keep guns out of the hands of felons, and domestic abusers.
Last edited by n5wd on Fri May 08, 2015 1:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#24

Post by anygunanywhere »

n5wd wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:So all they need to do is continue to redefine domestic abuse and then they can "legally" confiscate anyone's firearms.

Maybe they will soon use this against so-called domestic terrorists.

We are all just a redefinition away from total tyranny.
So, anygun (you don't mind me being that informal, do you), you're in favor of men who beat their wives (and historically, there are a far greater percentage of male domestic partner abusers, gay or straight, then there are female offenders), is that what you're telling us? You want these dispicable scum to have a ready gun at hand? How often have you beat your wife?

Never? Then, you're like most of us folk who've gone through life without laying a hand on our wife. And while there may be some one who file false reports, just to gain a advantage over someone else in a divorce, my personal experience with the victims has convinced me that society gives a lot of lip service to protecting legitimate victims while tending to screen out the ilegitimate reports. Ask a cop how well we can protect a wife that's being beaten by her ex. Ask one of the dispatchers who take a call from a victim, in progress, and ask her how long it takes for her to get officers to the call?

Everyone who's going to have their gun rights taken away goes before a judge before that happens. I believe in the system enough to think that, in this very limited and well-litigated instance, the law is a good one, and I'm glad Dallas County is doing something about this priblem.

It's simple -if you want to have a CHL later in life, don't beat your wife. If you do have guns and you beat your wife, your guns get given to a third party (if you read the article, that is one of the options for a domestic violence offender) or let the county hold on to them while the protective order is in place (usually, a PO is good for two years), or if you're convicted, the term is forever.

The vast majority of good, honest folk have nothing to worry about, cause they'll nnever put themselves in that position.
Did you actually read my post? Where did I anywhere state that I supported abuser's keeping firearms?

As others have pointed out, the majority of these individuals are not convicted felons. In my opinion due process has not been followed.

My post was intended to point out that we all are just a signature on a piece of paper away from having our rights erased. Of course as your last sentence points out we good folks have nothing to worry about. We should act like we have nothing to worry about ever if we are good folks. Allowing searches during traffic stops comes to mind. If we have nothing to hide we have nothing to worry about, right?
Last edited by anygunanywhere on Thu May 07, 2015 10:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#25

Post by Javier730 »

Pawpaw wrote:
cb1000rider wrote:Is anyone arguing that people convicted of domestic abuse (ie, commonly called "criminals" on this forum) should retain their 2nd amendment rights?
I will argue that it's not right. Why is "domestic abuse" the only misdemeanor that will cost you your 2nd amendment rights? If it's that serious a crime, it should be a felony.

Do you have any idea how easy it is to be convicted of domestic abuse? All that is necessary is for the female to call it into 911. The police will show up and tell you that they are required by law to take someone to jail and you're elected. Then you will have the opportunity to post bail. Remember, the person who put you there now has control of all of your money so good luck. After several months drag by, you will finally get your day in court. She says you did & you say you didn't. There are no bruises or other evidence, but that doesn't matter. The judge will still pronounce you guilty. Congratulations. You have now lost the right to own a gun and you didn't do anything.

I have seen it, personally, with a close family member. I was sitting in the courtroom when "judgement" was passed on a purely "he said - she said". The guy loses.
:iagree: Ive personally seen this happen. All the woman has to say is she was hit. No proof is needed. The man will go to jail and will be convicted even if the woman changes her mind. The state picks up the charges. Living at an apartment complex where my wife was the manager, I saw people call the police and say they heard the neighbors arguing and the wife being beat and the guy got arrested even though the woman was saying she was never touched. He still went to jail. Later with the police gone, the woman told my wife they were arguing loudly but it never got physical. The man was later released and was put on probation.

I used to think that people convicted of domestic violence should lose their 2nd amendment rights until I witnessed that. In my opinion, this man should be able to protect his family with a firearm. I myself have been convicted of a crime (not domestic violence) and no one on this planet will convince me that I should not have the right to defend my loved ones with a firearm.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#26

Post by anygunanywhere »

Javier730 wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:
cb1000rider wrote:Is anyone arguing that people convicted of domestic abuse (ie, commonly called "criminals" on this forum) should retain their 2nd amendment rights?
I will argue that it's not right. Why is "domestic abuse" the only misdemeanor that will cost you your 2nd amendment rights? If it's that serious a crime, it should be a felony.

Do you have any idea how easy it is to be convicted of domestic abuse? All that is necessary is for the female to call it into 911. The police will show up and tell you that they are required by law to take someone to jail and you're elected. Then you will have the opportunity to post bail. Remember, the person who put you there now has control of all of your money so good luck. After several months drag by, you will finally get your day in court. She says you did & you say you didn't. There are no bruises or other evidence, but that doesn't matter. The judge will still pronounce you guilty. Congratulations. You have now lost the right to own a gun and you didn't do anything.

I have seen it, personally, with a close family member. I was sitting in the courtroom when "judgement" was passed on a purely "he said - she said". The guy loses.
:iagree: Ive personally seen this happen. All the woman has to say is she was hit. No proof is needed. The man will go to jail and will be convicted even if the woman changes her mind. The state picks up the charges. Living at an apartment complex where my wife was the manager, I saw people call the police and say they heard the neighbors arguing and the wife being beat and the guy got arrested even though the woman was saying she was never touched. He still went to jail. Later with the police gone, the woman told my wife they were arguing loudly but it never got physical. The man was later released and was put on probation.

I used to think that people convicted of domestic violence should lose their 2nd amendment rights until I witnessed that. In my opinion, this man should be able to protect his family with a firearm. I myself have been convicted of a crime (not domestic violence) and no one on this planet will convince me that I should not have the right to defend my loved ones with a firearm.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#27

Post by Javier730 »

n5wd wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:So all they need to do is continue to redefine domestic abuse and then they can "legally" confiscate anyone's firearms.

Maybe they will soon use this against so-called domestic terrorists.

We are all just a redefinition away from total tyranny.
So, anygun (you don't mind me being that informal, do you), you're in favor of men who beat their wives (and historically, there are a far greater percentage of male domestic partner abusers, gay or straight, then there are female offenders), is that what you're telling us? You want these dispicable scum to have a ready gun at hand? How often have you beat your wife?

Never? Then, you're like most of us folk who've gone through life without laying a hand on our wife. And while there may be some one who file false reports, just to gain a advantage over someone else in a divorce, my personal experience with the victims has convinced me that society gives a lot of lip service to protecting legitimate victims while tending to screen out the ilegitimate reports. Ask a cop how well we can protect a wife that's being beaten by her ex. Ask one of the dispatchers who take a call from a victim, in progress, and ask her how long it takes for her to get officers to the call?

Everyone who's going to have their gun rights taken away goes before a judge before that happens. I believe in the system enough to think that, in this very limited and well-litigated instance, the law is a good one, and I'm glad Dallas County is doing something about this priblem.

It's simple -if you want to have a CHL later in life, don't beat your wife. If you do have guns and you beat your wife, your guns get given to a third party (if you read the article, that is one of the options for a domestic violence offender) or let the county hold on to them while the protective order is in place (usually, a PO is good for two years), or if you're convicted, the term is forever.

The vast majority of good, honest folk have nothing to worry about, cause they'll nnever put themselves in that position.
Should men convicted of domestic violence be banned from playing golf and/or owning a golf club? They can easily use that to commit violence. They can use a hammer, baseball bat, pipe wrench, kitchen knife, etc. If your going to ban someone from owning something they can use to hurt there spouse with, it should not only be firearms. This reminds me of the celebrities who are saying, "Stop the gun violence". It should just be, Stop the violence. They make it sound like the gun is committing crimes. Guns don't cause men to beat their wives. Owning a gun does not influence the decision to commit domestic violence. I once posted something, on this forum, against firearm ownership of people convicted of domestic violence but like my previous post, I saw how easily it is to be arrested and convicted of domestic violence and my opinion has since changed.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#28

Post by VMI77 »

cb1000rider wrote:
Pawpaw wrote: I will argue that it's not right. Why is "domestic abuse" the only misdemeanor that will cost you your 2nd amendment rights? If it's that serious a crime, it should be a felony.
I don't care what category it's in. It's a violent crime and indicates a lack of good judgment. In my mind, a propensity toward violence and a lack of good judgment should probably cost you firearm ownership for a while. Sure, due process can fall on it's face, but if we stand on that alone, why not let out all the criminals? We've had death penalty cases without any physical evidence, but still a lot of people continue to support that as valid legal process and appropriate justice. Taking firearms for a while is certainly less permanent.

Those indicating how easy it is to pin the tail on the donkey, isn't that the same with assault or just about any "I'll sign the complaint" crime? A conviction should.. And I say should.. require more than just that.

Now the whole protective order thing, that's a bit more one sided and ridiculous.
No, it's not. Reread pawpaws original post: the police are essentially required to take the side of the woman on a claim of abuse and the man has to prove he didn't do it. If I assault you and it's you said I said (and you're not politically connected) there is no immediate presumption in favor of either one of us.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#29

Post by VMI77 »

n5wd wrote:As far as domestic abuse being only a misdemeanor, it is, If and only If it is assault by contact. The use of a weapon in the assault (any kind of weapon or item used as a weapon) raises the severity up the ladder, and IIRC a gun or firearm raises the agg assault to a felont.

I've mentioned before that I worked as a field medic and as a Supervisor for our local EMS agency, MedStar, for almost 16 years of the 25 I was a paramedic. Some of that other time, I was the only paramedic on a vollie fire department in a Fort Worth suburb.

While the kiddoh calls where I couldn't do anything for a small child hurt my soul the most, it was the domestic abuse calls that made me the maddest. It was a domestic violence/abuse call where I came within inches of having a knife stuck into my chest. It was a domestic violence repeat victim where I ran my first murder victim (a young woman who died with her two kids watching everything that was going on) and yes, she had a protective order in force, but just like bad guys don't care about a 30.06 sign, scum like this woman's ex don't care about protective orders.

Too many times we hear of a woman who is beaten again, shot, knifed, or simply hurt very badly by a former domestic partner. The law doesn't do a good job of protecting the people, whether they're male or female. Taking the gun away IS THE LAW and most jurisdictions in Texas din't follow the law. What Denton does is introduce a way to do it short of having gun squads, like the do in Mass, New York, California, etc. we can come up with better ways to do it, and Dallas Co's way is but one way to remove just one type of weapon away from abusers.

I can see the arguements about the protective orders. The ones where I have had to submit affadavits under subpeonae have all been legit, as far as I know. Have there been some innocent folks that have suffered because of a PO? Perhaps so. But, letting everyone keep their guns is not a real answer.

NICS is history and gun folks are mostly living with it. We (the law-abiding CHL people that we are) can live with this, too, until someone finds a better way to keep guns out of the hands of felons, and domestic abusers.
Uh, if your experience is based on responding to calls where someone has been injured then there is actual evidence that something happened, not merely an accusation. I don't think anyone is talking about falsified evidence, but he said she said situations. All of the incidents herein related as unjust involved no injuries or evidence. In one of the incidents cited the wife wasn't even the one who made the complaint and denied any physical contact had taken place.

Given that you're posting on a CHL board I don't quite understand the tone of your posts like this one. A protective order isn't worth the paper it's written on. It may have some value in a lawsuit or some other court hearing but it has absolutely zero protective value (well, they may have some value supporting a self-defense claim if the person with the protective order ends up having to shoot their attacker). The police have no responsibility to protect anyone with a protective order...the courts have so ruled many times...and can't protect anyone except under some very narrow and limited circumstances. Isn't that why we have CHLs?

Furthermore, there is no way to keep a gun or any other weapon out of the hands of an abuser. Anyone, convicted felon or not, can go buy a percussion cap revolver with no background check. Six shots. They worked pretty well for the purpose of killing when they were invented. Even if that wasn't the case most people intent on killing someone can get their hands on a gun. That's been the pro-gun argument in any case, which I'd guess you support? But criminals don't need a gun to kill a wife or a child. Many abusers can beat a woman to death with their first. Clubs and knives are readily available.

I'm not making an argument to allow abusers to keep a gun. If someone has been adjudicated as committing a violent crime they shouldn't legally have a gun. But the reality is that there is only one real solution for a woman who fears an abuser: get a gun, know how to use it, and be prepared to do so to protect herself or her children. The police can't protect individuals. All of us are ultimately responsible for protecting ourselves. I think we all know full well that the supposed advocates for women are going to tell them the exact opposite and repeat the liberal nonsense that if they have a gun it will be used against them.
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Re: Dallas County to begin gun-confiscation

#30

Post by n5wd »

anygunanywhere wrote:
n5wd wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:So all they need to do is continue to redefine domestic abuse and then they can "legally" confiscate anyone's firearms.

Maybe they will soon use this against so-called domestic terrorists.

We are all just a redefinition away from total tyranny.
So, anygun (you don't mind me being that informal, do you), you're in favor of men who beat their wives (and historically, there are a far greater percentage of male domestic partner abusers, gay or straight, then there are female offenders), is that what you're telling us? You want these dispicable scum to have a ready gun at hand? How often have you beat your wife?

Never? Then, you're like most of us folk who've gone through life without laying a hand on our wife. And while there may be some one who file false reports, just to gain a advantage over someone else in a divorce, my personal experience with the victims has convinced me that society gives a lot of lip service to protecting legitimate victims while tending to screen out the ilegitimate reports. Ask a cop how well we can protect a wife that's being beaten by her ex. Ask one of the dispatchers who take a call from a victim, in progress, and ask her how long it takes for her to get officers to the call?

Everyone who's going to have their gun rights taken away goes before a judge before that happens. I believe in the system enough to think that, in this very limited and well-litigated instance, the law is a good one, and I'm glad Dallas County is doing something about this problem.

It's simple -if you want to have a CHL later in life, don't beat your wife. If you do have guns and you beat your wife, your guns get given to a third party (if you read the article, that is one of the options for a domestic violence offender) or let the county hold on to them while the protective order is in place (usually, a PO is good for two years), or if you're convicted, the term is forever.

The vast majority of good, honest folk have nothing to worry about, cause they'll never put themselves in that position.
Did you actually read my post? Where did I anywhere state that I supported abuser's keeping firearms?

As others have pointed out, the majority of these individuals are not convicted felons. In my opinion due process has not been followed.

My post was intended to point out that we all are just a signature on a piece of paper away from having our rights erased. Of course as your last sentence points out we good folks have nothing to worry about. We should act like we have nothing to worry about ever if we are good folks. Allowing searches during traffic stops comes to mind. If we have nothing to hide we have nothing to worry about, right?
Stating that we're "just a redefinition away from total tyranny" doesn't sound like you're in favor of what Dallas County is doing, does it? As the old saying goes, if you're not for something, then you're ag'n it.

As others have pointed out - Texas is one of the few places in the world that does not have a method in place to remove firearms from the possession of those who have been found guilty of domestic violence charges, and for the temporary removal of firearms from those who have protective orders in place against them. It's been the law for a long time, Dallas Co. is just finally coming up with a way to implement the law in what seems to be a fair, non-adversarial way.

If you don't think due process is being followed, then advocate for a change in the laws.

I believe in following the law, even if I don't believe the law is a perfect one. When I refuse a request to search my vehicle (which, by the way, I've never had - I've only been traffic stopped twice in my life and neither one of those officers asked to search my vehicle) I'm following the law that allows me to do that. No harm, no foul, and not against the law to do so.
NRA-Life member, NRA Instructor, NRA RSO, TSRA member,
Vietnam (AF) Veteran -- Amateur Extra class amateur radio operator: N5WD

Email: CHL@centurylink.net
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