Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

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thatguyoverthere
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Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

#1

Post by thatguyoverthere »

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/05/ ... istry.html
Out of all the guns owned in the US, just hundredths of one percent are used in committing crimes, and the rate that registered guns are used in crimes is a tiny fraction of that. For concealed handgun permit holders the revocation rate for any firearms related violation is thousandths of one percent, and almost all of those are trivial, nonviolent offenses.
Yet, they keep trying to fix the "gun problem" with more laws and more requirements and more restrictions on what is certainly one of the most law-abiding groups of people in the nation.

Can anyone think of any other "problem" that has so much effort devoted to "solving" said "problem" in such a misguided (or dishonest) fashion?

The Wall
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Re: Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

#2

Post by The Wall »

Gay rights would be one.
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Re: Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

#3

Post by thatguyoverthere »

The Wall wrote:Gay rights would be one.
:lol: True that. Guess I was so focused on the "(anti) gun rights problem", that I completely overlooked the "gay rights problem."

It's just that, seemingly with so many people in both the media and the government trying so hard to severely limit my ability to defend myself and my family from physical harm, that I sometimes feel like it's already a lost cause; like it's just a matter of time before they finally succeed.

I just see statistics like what John Lott has listed above, and I wonder to myself: "Don't these gun control people clearly see that more laws and restrictions won't fix the "gun problem?" Can't they think logically? I guess my problem is that I just keep forgetting that many of the key people who are pushing so hard for gun control don't give a whit about guns - they're just concerned with the "control" part of the equation.

I'm just venting in my frustration about people arguing dishonestly. :mad5

My attitude is always: "Ok, you want to debate, then let's debate on the facts so we can discover the truth, whatever it may be." I sometimes forget that the "truth" is NOT what a lot of people are concerned about.

Just drives me crazy! :banghead:

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Re: Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

#4

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

Global warming, no wait it's getting colder so global cooling, err, oh shoot, let's just call it "climate change" and ignore the fact that the climate will change regardless of anything we do.

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Re: Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

#5

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

thatguyoverthere wrote:
The Wall wrote:Gay rights would be one.
:lol: True that. Guess I was so focused on the "(anti) gun rights problem", that I completely overlooked the "gay rights problem."

It's just that, seemingly with so many people in both the media and the government trying so hard to severely limit my ability to defend myself and my family from physical harm, that I sometimes feel like it's already a lost cause; like it's just a matter of time before they finally succeed.

I just see statistics like what John Lott has listed above, and I wonder to myself: "Don't these gun control people clearly see that more laws and restrictions won't fix the "gun problem?" Can't they think logically? I guess my problem is that I just keep forgetting that many of the key people who are pushing so hard for gun control don't give a whit about guns - they're just concerned with the "control" part of the equation.

I'm just venting in my frustration about people arguing dishonestly. :mad5

My attitude is always: "Ok, you want to debate, then let's debate on the facts so we can discover the truth, whatever it may be." I sometimes forget that the "truth" is NOT what a lot of people are concerned about.

Just drives me crazy! :banghead:
The liberal mindset is a very illogical and scary thing. I'm by no means an expert, but a lot of it functions on a very superficial and childlike level. Guns fire bullets and people get hurt and killed by bullets, therefore guns are bad, therefore restricting guns makes us safer. You have to set aside all higher level logic. This is why a liberal will respond with personal attacks if challenged with actual logic. "You don't care about the children" is one of their favorites. Try pointing out that most mass shooting happen in "Gun Free Zones" and you will likely get that retort.

I was at a wedding on Saturday night where the groom is a recent West Point graduate. There were about 30 recent graduates, in uniform, and of course the venue was posted with both 30.06 and 30.07 signs. I pointed out to my wife that I felt uncomfortable being so vulnerable in such a high value target location. She had no idea what I was talking about. I sincerely believe that the signs actually made her feel safer in some perverse and twisted way.
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Re: Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

#6

Post by Flightmare »

My favorite argument against the people who think that eliminating guns will prevent murders and accidental deaths from happening, is to point out that murder did not start when guns were invented. Murder has been around MUCH longer than firearms have been. Swords, knives, and even cars can kill a person equally as dead. The reason I am for guns, is they are an equalizer. My mother has a Ruger LCP. That little 380 puts her on equal footing with someone my size. Without firearms, whoever is stronger generally wins. Firearms give smaller people a fighting chance. I have yet to encounter an anti-gunner refute that logic. They typically just get silent.
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flintknapper
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Re: Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

#7

Post by flintknapper »

The liberal mindset is a very illogical and scary thing.
I've long held that 'Liberal' thinking (the extreme kind) is a form of Mental Illness.

Liberals tend to be moved to 'emotion' easily and will act upon that alone. Any attempt to bring facts or logic into the mix...is viewed as an affront to their sensibilities.

I also question their principles and moral plane. Many are more than willing to do or say things (not generally considered acceptable) in order to achieve their goal. The mindset seems to be: ' The End justifies the The Means'.

There is clearly a cultural war at play in our society.
Spartans ask not how many, but where!
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Re: Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

#8

Post by Flightmare »

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Bitter Clinger
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Re: Could They Be Any More Dishonest?

#9

Post by Bitter Clinger »

AndyC wrote:
thatguyoverthere wrote:It's just that, seemingly with so many people in both the media and the government trying so hard to severely limit my ability to defend myself and my family from physical harm, that I sometimes feel like it's already a lost cause; like it's just a matter of time before they finally succeed.
Nope, don't be despondent - we are in the right, the tide is turning and remember that legally, we're getting almost all of the victories these days! :)

You should join in on places like Facebook - there are MANY of us who drive the antis crazy with our indisputable facts, and here's the cool thing: each of us learn from reading the arguments of others, how they respond in ways we might never have thought of, honing our arguments and saving reams of links, facts and statistics to use later.

For example - you see someone whining about how 'The CDC isn't allowed to analyze gun-violence any more thanks to the NRA - what do they have to hide, huh??' So, we hit them with something like this:
Well, Obama ordered the CDC to do just that despite the Congressional ban - and here are some key findings from the CDC report, “Priorities for Research to Reduce the Threat of Firearm-Related Violence,” released in June 2013:

1. Armed citizens are less likely to be injured by an attacker:
“Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was ‘used’ by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”

2. Defensive uses of guns are common:
“Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year…in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.”

3. Mass shootings and accidental firearm deaths account for a small fraction of gun-related deaths, and both are declining:
“The number of public mass shootings of the type that occurred at Sandy Hook Elementary School accounted for a very small fraction of all firearm-related deaths. Since 1983 there have been 78 events in which 4 or more individuals were killed by a single perpetrator in 1 day in the United States, resulting in 547 victims and 476 injured persons.” The report also notes, “Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010.”

4. “Interventions” (i.e, gun control) such as background checks, so-called assault rifle bans and gun-free zones produce “mixed” results:
“Whether gun restrictions reduce firearm-related violence is an unresolved issue.” The report could not conclude whether “passage of right-to-carry laws decrease or increase violence crime.”

5. Gun buyback/turn-in programs are “ineffective” in reducing crime:
“There is empirical evidence that gun turn in programs are ineffective, as noted in the 2005 NRC study Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. For example, in 2009, an estimated 310 million guns were available to civilians in the United States (Krouse, 2012), but gun buy-back programs typically recover less than 1,000 guns (NRC, 2005). On the local level, buy-backs may increase awareness of firearm violence. However, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, for example, guns recovered in the buy-back were not the same guns as those most often used in homicides and suicides (Kuhn et al., 2002).”

6. Stolen guns and retail/gun show purchases account for very little crime:
“More recent prisoner surveys suggest that stolen guns account for only a small percentage of guns used by convicted criminals. … According to a 1997 survey of inmates, approximately 70 percent of the guns used or possess by criminals at the time of their arrest came from family or friends, drug dealers, street purchases, or the underground market.”

7. The vast majority of gun-related deaths are not homicides, but suicides:
“Between the years 2000-2010 firearm-related suicides significantly outnumbered homicides for all age groups, annually accounting for 61 percent of the more than 335,600 people who died from firearms related violence in the United States.”

Here - feel free to read it for yourself: http://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/1
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I fight there every single day and love it because those 2A supporters on your friends' list can see you taking part and they all start to climb in to help decimate those sheep. That's where you can vent your spleen on them because it's an actual individual you can fight instead of some amorphous mass. I've also noticed that we've started to use many of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals against them, particularly “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” - we pound an individual so hard they rarely want to engage again, so that's one less overt voice they have each time.
Andy,

Thanks for taking the time to enumerate the above points. Will use them today in a letter to the left wing liberal ideologues in my community who have the audacity to call themselves leaders - I am so disgusted with the politics (i.e. money and power!) of organized religion that I have difficulty finding the right words. Your post helped me a lot!!! :tiphat:
"You may all go to H3ll, and I will go to Texas." - Davy Crockett
"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." - Wyatt Earp
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