This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby SewTexas » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:34 am

we really need to get Condi Rice to run
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby emcee rib » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:43 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I know some will argue that conservatives didn't go to the polls for Romney, but that's not the case and that's not why we lost. The sad truth is this: conservatives are in the minority and this is happening at an accelerating rate. The only way to revive conservationism is to attract Hispanics and appeal to all educated young people with a message that resonates with them and doesn't simply sound like bitter old white guys.


One thing the Republican leadership in Texas could easily do to win the support of educated young people is stop blocking campus carry. If 2013 sees them kill it again for the third or fourth time (I lost count) they should expect to reap the "rewards" for opposing civil rights. If the Texas GOP betrays us again, they will continue to lose more and more of the college educated, and graduate school educated, voters who care. What's more, they will roundly deserve it.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby 77346 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:53 pm

emcee rib wrote:One thing the Republican leadership in Texas could easily do to win the support of educated young people is stop blocking campus carry.

:iagree:
I couldn't agree more with you, emcee...
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Ameer » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:33 pm

:iagree:

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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby tamc9395 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:48 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'm a life-long conservative, death penalty-supporting, white Republican and every day that passes I become more of a minority.


I know many of our Members aren't going to like this post. Heck, I don't like it myself, but these are the facts and the ostrich approach never works.

Chas.


Charles said it best...we have to adapt to the new young age. My kids know better, but they are years away from being able to influence any hope for change. It is up to our generation to find a common ground before it is to late.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Jim Beaux » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:42 am

This quote supposedly came from the Czech Republic, regardless of its origin,it's an excellent summation

"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby cyphur » Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:23 pm

Jim Beaux wrote:This quote supposedly came from the Czech Republic, regardless of its origin,it's an excellent summation

"The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president."


Do you mind providing the source of that? I would love to quote that elsewhere, as I think it is spot-on about the underlying issue at hand.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby cyphur » Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:07 pm

srothstein wrote:Charles,

I agree with some of what you posted and disagree with some. The most important part that I don't really care about is the Republican Party. The party left me a long time ago. There are large groups of people the Republican party needs to appeal to if it wants to survive and prosper. Hispanics are one, Blacks are a second, and the libertarians (note the small "L", this is the people who hold a philosophy and not the party members particularly) are a third. All of these groups have things in common with the GOP and all have differences.

With one caution, I would say the GOP needs to really carefully examine its platform and plans. One of the few good things I see in the future for the GOP is the fact that the Democrats are a party of alliances that will fracture apart. There is no true Democratic core belief. Instead, there are alliances between extreme core beliefs from several different groups, such as the socialists, the environmentalists, the animal rights groups, the peace at any cost groups, etc. I think it will break apart under the stress of trying to govern. If the GOP tries to become a similar coalition party, it also cannot survive.

What I think most people really want to see in the US, and the GOP could pull off with some thought, is a party that fights for fiscal conservation while promoting social liberty. The GOP loses many people when they fight to keep religion in all forms of government. More and more of the country want to keep their own religion and keep it private. The GOP loses when it tries to restrict abortion, especially when it is a restriction based on a religious interpretation. I do not support abortion but I honestly don't think the government should have a say in it. Gay marriage is the same way.

Most people do support gun rights, so the GOP has a draw there. I do hold more extreme beliefs in gun rights than most Americans, but it is relatively easy to fight gun control issues when you prove that it doesn't work for the stated goal.

As you say, immigration is a major issue that the country needs to solve. I am a descendant of immigrants (well, we all are but mine is only three or four generations) and I want to go back to the days of allowing most people who want to come in and work and improve themselves to do so. If we separate the "entitlements" issue from the immigration, I think most Americans want more immigration but do not support giving them any welfare. Argue to stop most (not all, but most) welfare without regard to immigration status while removing immigration restrictions and the GOP could have a winning policy.

Which does bring us to the fiscal conservative part. I think most people in the US could support a policy that helps those who really need it (such as those unable to work) and that provides some benefit to people who need help for a short time. I am sure the GOP could develop a policy that narrows the support over a period of time and ends the generational welfare problem while still providing support for those who really do need help.

And for all of those in here who read this, I want to emphasize that I do not necessarily hold any of these beliefs. Nor do I necessarily disagree with them. My personal beliefs are along the lines of Jefferson's quote about that government which governs least governs best. I do think this type of platform is the one that would have the biggest support in the US population. It would take some demonstrated proof that they really are changing to this way of thought before they see much gain, but then it would come in a landslide. I base this one what turned me off on the GOP, and what I think could bring in the reasonable people from my extreme right side and the moderate to just left of center side people also.

Our country is very divided and now is the time for us to start working on the middle ground. The group that gets there first will control it. The average American does not want to be divided this way.


As an Independent, college-educated, fiscally conservative, socially liberal, high income Millennial who has served overseas in support of this nation, I must say this is one of the most accurate and insightful posts in this thread in my humble opinion. I give that background simply to state that I am not the run of the mill youngin' who has their head in the sand, and have earned my rights.

The Republican Party lost me with McCain, and it did nothing to win me back with Romney. Paul Ryan was a breath of fresh air, but even he looked like a dolt in the debate. You want to win over an entire generation who wants real reform? Stop trying to make things the way they used to be. There is an old saying, if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got. Well, we obviously need to change something, because this simply is not working.

As a generalization our electorate has no freaking clue how to fix our economy, and yet that was a major issue in this election. It was all smoke and mirrors, I'd be hard pressed to find a dozen folks on the street who understand cost-based accounting or know what net-60 means without using google. If they cannot understand fundamental accounting, how can they hope to understand it at a national level? As long as parties make the election about issues people do not understand, they will associate to issues based on emotional ties, not logic. The Democratic party wins the emotional debate with feel good garbage promises they know they cannot deliver on. This is a direct byproduct of an uneducated electorate. Fix the problem, not the symptom.

Religion as a party basis has got to go - and I do not say that because I am not a Christian - yes, you heard that right - I say that because this country was founded on Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion. This is a lesson the Christians and Athiests' must learn alike. People should be legally allowed to practice their religion without interference from the State(Federal or otherwise). However, it is our fundamental system that State's Rights not be countered, thus if citizens do not like the State's laws, they can move. The Federal Government has no business in my wife's womb, nor in my choice to practice any victim-less facet of any religion I may participate in. Women's Rights are going nowhere, if the Republican party cannot get on board with that, they're done for a good long while. If Catholic-based countries are warming to abortion, I am not real clear why the US is trying to reverse Roe v Wade.

Immigration is what this country was founded on, and it needs a robust immigration policy to continue to grow as a great country. If we try to say "we're good enough as we are", then we have not learned a single damned thing in the past 300 years, as it was that attitude that many of our forefathers fled in Europe and elsewhere. Diversity when properly educated makes for a stronger whole, not weaker. Why do you think the US Military is fully integrated now sans Special Operations forces?

I HATE entitlement programs with a burning passion, but not all of Medicare/Medicaid/Welfare is entitlement. When I was working mininmum wage jobs, going to college, my wife was pregnant with my twins. If it had not been for some of those programs, my twins who both wound up in NICU's would have kept me in debt for 15 years. Now that I am soundly in the mid to upper middle class, I have no reservations paying into those programs to help our fellow citizens in true need. However, that does not include people who pop out seven kids, has multiple flatscreen TVs, iPhones for every kid, and three different game console systems. Until the Republicans can devise a program that gets out in front of the Media with simple terms that make it VERY clear that they do not want to take away from the clearly needy, and get away from the "kill the seniors, defund Medicare, nuke Welfare" stigma, they will keep getting slaughtered in the media.


At the end of the day, you have to adapt and evolve, or die out. This is a basic premise of nature, and it is no different in politics or human nature. Technology has changed a lot of how society behaves, and it will take a few generations to balance out the negative effects we've seen. The US has to bring back manufacturing jobs(read micro-processors, not tinker toys), we have to bring back the sense of national pride, and tone down the Us vs Them mentality. We need to rise above the drivel the media has been throwing out there to sell cycles to advertisers. If the Old Guard cannot get that done, they may not like the outcome when the newer generations reshape their world around them.



300 years ago most of the nation was not educated enough to participate in the election, hence the Electoral College. 300 years later, not much has changed apparently. That is the real tragedy here, all other issues aside.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:27 pm

I've been a political animal for over 30 years. In the last dozen or so years, I've noticed a growing number of Libertarians (or libertarians, if you prefer) trying to get the GOP to accept libertarian positions on certain issues. I suspect this is happening because all but the most ardent libertarians realize that party/movement/philosophy is so schizophrenic that it doesn't appeal to conservatives or liberals. There's plenty in the Libertarian Party Platform for everyone to hate. So it appears libertarians try to stress their fiscally conservative belief to Republicans hoping that no one will ever see their ultra-liberal stance on social issues. It hasn't worked and it never will. You won't get core Republicans to abandon family values. (Family values isn't limited to abortion and gay marriage, a fact that seems to escape some folks.)

Making the GOP overall more liberal on social issues would be the end of the Party. There's already a party for that philosophy and it's the Democratic Party. Libertarians are fiscally conservative and ultra-liberal on many social issues, and absolute anarchists on others. Their platform and message doesn't sell as evidenced by the fact that they can't win. Adopting Libertarian viewpoints would also bring about the death of the GOP.

Like it or not, I do and some don't, the core of the Republican Party, and Hispanics in the Democratic Party, are God-fearing socially conservative Christians. You don't grow the GOP by alienating the core while trying to turn it into a Libertarian-Light Party. The only way to increase the numbers and political strength and impact of the GOP is to attract our only natural ally, the Hispanic community.

Most Americans and the vast majority of Republicans have precious little in common with libertarians, whether with a big or little "L." If that were not true, the Libertarian Party would have made gains in the political arena and it hasn't. Becoming more liberal or libertarian would be counterproductive, would alienate the core of the GOP and the Hispanic community we so desperately need, and kill the GOP.

To my fellow long-time conservatives, if you think we are still the silent majority and are growing in number, you're kidding yourself. The numbers in the last election prove it. There was no huge block of conservative voters who stayed home on election day. We are outnumbered by true Democrats and those who vote for Democratic candidates because they offer something they want. We can't reach all of them because there's just too many things to divide us, but we can make great inroads into the Hispanic community.

Abortion and gay marriage was brought up and I will agree that those issues are best left to the states. The national government has no business getting involved, whether by Congress or the U.S. Supreme Court. We can fight those battles at home and in Texas, we'll win. In California, it will be a different story, but those differences do not make them federal issues.

I'll say it until the day I die. Hispanics are natural Republicans because they share the same beliefs held by the core of the Republican Party. The gap between us is the immigration issue and we either accept that fact and fix it, or the GOP will gradually die over the coming years and it will take the values we share with it.

Chas.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby Oldgringo » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:00 pm

cyphur wrote:
srothstein wrote:Charles,

I agree with some of what you posted and disagree with some. The most important part that I don't really care about is the Republican Party. The party left me a long time ago. There are large groups of people the Republican party needs to appeal to if it wants to survive and prosper. Hispanics are one, Blacks are a second, and the libertarians (note the small "L", this is the people who hold a philosophy and not the party members particularly) are a third. All of these groups have things in common with the GOP and all have differences.

With one caution, I would say the GOP needs to really carefully examine its platform and plans. One of the few good things I see in the future for the GOP is the fact that the Democrats are a party of alliances that will fracture apart. There is no true Democratic core belief. Instead, there are alliances between extreme core beliefs from several different groups, such as the socialists, the environmentalists, the animal rights groups, the peace at any cost groups, etc. I think it will break apart under the stress of trying to govern. If the GOP tries to become a similar coalition party, it also cannot survive.

What I think most people really want to see in the US, and the GOP could pull off with some thought, is a party that fights for fiscal conservation while promoting social liberty. The GOP loses many people when they fight to keep religion in all forms of government. More and more of the country want to keep their own religion and keep it private. The GOP loses when it tries to restrict abortion, especially when it is a restriction based on a religious interpretation. I do not support abortion but I honestly don't think the government should have a say in it. Gay marriage is the same way.

Most people do support gun rights, so the GOP has a draw there. I do hold more extreme beliefs in gun rights than most Americans, but it is relatively easy to fight gun control issues when you prove that it doesn't work for the stated goal.

As you say, immigration is a major issue that the country needs to solve. I am a descendant of immigrants (well, we all are but mine is only three or four generations) and I want to go back to the days of allowing most people who want to come in and work and improve themselves to do so. If we separate the "entitlements" issue from the immigration, I think most Americans want more immigration but do not support giving them any welfare. Argue to stop most (not all, but most) welfare without regard to immigration status while removing immigration restrictions and the GOP could have a winning policy.

Which does bring us to the fiscal conservative part. I think most people in the US could support a policy that helps those who really need it (such as those unable to work) and that provides some benefit to people who need help for a short time. I am sure the GOP could develop a policy that narrows the support over a period of time and ends the generational welfare problem while still providing support for those who really do need help.

And for all of those in here who read this, I want to emphasize that I do not necessarily hold any of these beliefs. Nor do I necessarily disagree with them. My personal beliefs are along the lines of Jefferson's quote about that government which governs least governs best. I do think this type of platform is the one that would have the biggest support in the US population. It would take some demonstrated proof that they really are changing to this way of thought before they see much gain, but then it would come in a landslide. I base this one what turned me off on the GOP, and what I think could bring in the reasonable people from my extreme right side and the moderate to just left of center side people also.

Our country is very divided and now is the time for us to start working on the middle ground. The group that gets there first will control it. The average American does not want to be divided this way.


As an Independent, college-educated, fiscally conservative, socially liberal, high income Millennial who has served overseas in support of this nation, I must say this is one of the most accurate and insightful posts in this thread in my humble opinion. I give that background simply to state that I am not the run of the mill youngin' who has their head in the sand, and have earned my rights.

The Republican Party lost me with McCain, and it did nothing to win me back with Romney. Paul Ryan was a breath of fresh air, but even he looked like a dolt in the debate. You want to win over an entire generation who wants real reform? Stop trying to make things the way they used to be. There is an old saying, if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got. Well, we obviously need to change something, because this simply is not working.

As a generalization our electorate has no freaking clue how to fix our economy, and yet that was a major issue in this election. It was all smoke and mirrors, I'd be hard pressed to find a dozen folks on the street who understand cost-based accounting or know what net-60 means without using google. If they cannot understand fundamental accounting, how can they hope to understand it at a national level? As long as parties make the election about issues people do not understand, they will associate to issues based on emotional ties, not logic. The Democratic party wins the emotional debate with feel good garbage promises they know they cannot deliver on. This is a direct byproduct of an uneducated electorate. Fix the problem, not the symptom.

Religion as a party basis has got to go - and I do not say that because I am not a Christian - yes, you heard that right - I say that because this country was founded on Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion. This is a lesson the Christians and Athiests' must learn alike. People should be legally allowed to practice their religion without interference from the State(Federal or otherwise). However, it is our fundamental system that State's Rights not be countered, thus if citizens do not like the State's laws, they can move. The Federal Government has no business in my wife's womb, nor in my choice to practice any victim-less facet of any religion I may participate in. Women's Rights are going nowhere, if the Republican party cannot get on board with that, they're done for a good long while. If Catholic-based countries are warming to abortion, I am not real clear why the US is trying to reverse Roe v Wade.

Immigration is what this country was founded on, and it needs a robust immigration policy to continue to grow as a great country. If we try to say "we're good enough as we are", then we have not learned a single damned thing in the past 300 years, as it was that attitude that many of our forefathers fled in Europe and elsewhere. Diversity when properly educated makes for a stronger whole, not weaker. Why do you think the US Military is fully integrated now sans Special Operations forces?

I HATE entitlement programs with a burning passion, but not all of Medicare/Medicaid/Welfare is entitlement. When I was working mininmum wage jobs, going to college, my wife was pregnant with my twins. If it had not been for some of those programs, my twins who both wound up in NICU's would have kept me in debt for 15 years. Now that I am soundly in the mid to upper middle class, I have no reservations paying into those programs to help our fellow citizens in true need. However, that does not include people who pop out seven kids, has multiple flatscreen TVs, iPhones for every kid, and three different game console systems. Until the Republicans can devise a program that gets out in front of the Media with simple terms that make it VERY clear that they do not want to take away from the clearly needy, and get away from the "kill the seniors, defund Medicare, nuke Welfare" stigma, they will keep getting slaughtered in the media.

At the end of the day, you have to adapt and evolve, or die out. This is a basic premise of nature, and it is no different in politics or human nature. Technology has changed a lot of how society behaves, and it will take a few generations to balance out the negative effects we've seen. The US has to bring back manufacturing jobs(read micro-processors, not tinker toys), we have to bring back the sense of national pride, and tone down the Us vs Them mentality. We need to rise above the drivel the media has been throwing out there to sell cycles to advertisers. If the Old Guard cannot get that done, they may not like the outcome when the newer generations reshape their world around them.

300 years ago most of the nation was not educated enough to participate in the election, hence the Electoral College. 300 years later, not much has changed apparently. That is the real tragedy here, all other issues aside.


:clapping: There it is! Well said, Steve and cyphur. :iagree:
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby baldeagle » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:09 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'll say it until the day I die. Hispanics are natural Republicans because they share the same beliefs held by the core of the Republican Party. The gap between us is the immigration issue and we either accept that fact and fix it, or the GOP will gradually die over the coming years and it will take the values we share with it.

Chas.

So what does it mean to fix the immigration issue? We just accept the millions of people that have entered our country illegally? We support some sort of earned amnesty? I'm really curious.

Personally, I look at people's behavior and make judgments. If you have sex with other women than your wife, then I am not going to be surprised when you renege on your political promises. If you enter the country illegally, then I won't be surprised when you have no respect for the law.

I just don't see how we resolve the immigration problem without abandoning core principles.

Of course, I believe the country is already lost and it's a waste of time to try to do anything about it, but I know there are lots of people who still hold out hope.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby cyphur » Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:19 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I've been a political animal for over 30 years. In the last dozen or so years, I've noticed a growing number of Libertarians (or libertarians, if you prefer) trying to get the GOP to accept libertarian positions on certain issues. I suspect this is happening because all but the most ardent libertarians realize that party/movement/philosophy is so schizophrenic that it doesn't appeal to conservatives or liberals. There's plenty in the Libertarian Party Platform for everyone to hate. So it appears libertarians try to stress their fiscally conservative belief to Republicans hoping that no one will ever see their ultra-liberal stance on social issues. It hasn't worked and it never will. You won't get core Republicans to abandon family values. (Family values isn't limited to abortion and gay marriage, a fact that seems to escape some folks.)

Making the GOP overall more liberal on social issues would be the end of the Party. There's already a party for that philosophy and it's the Democratic Party. Libertarians are fiscally conservative and ultra-liberal on many social issues, and absolute anarchists on others. Their platform and message doesn't sell as evidenced by the fact that they can't win. Adopting Libertarian viewpoints would also bring about the death of the GOP.

Like it or not, I do and some don't, the core of the Republican Party, and Hispanics in the Democratic Party, are God-fearing socially conservative Christians. You don't grow the GOP by alienating the core while trying to turn it into a Libertarian-Light Party. The only way to increase the numbers and political strength and impact of the GOP is to attract our only natural ally, the Hispanic community.

Most Americans and the vast majority of Republicans have precious little in common with libertarians, whether with a big or little "L." If that were not true, the Libertarian Party would have made gains in the political arena and it hasn't. Becoming more liberal or libertarian would be counterproductive, would alienate the core of the GOP and the Hispanic community we so desperately need, and kill the GOP.

To my fellow long-time conservatives, if you think we are still the silent majority and are growing in number, you're kidding yourself. The numbers in the last election prove it. There was no huge block of conservative voters who stayed home on election day. We are outnumbered by true Democrats and those who vote for Democratic candidates because they offer something they want. We can't reach all of them because there's just too many things to divide us, but we can make great inroads into the Hispanic community.

Abortion and gay marriage was brought up and I will agree that those issues are best left to the states. The national government has no business getting involved, whether by Congress or the U.S. Supreme Court. We can fight those battles at home and in Texas, we'll win. In California, it will be a different story, but those differences do not make them federal issues.

I'll say it until the day I die. Hispanics are natural Republicans because they share the same beliefs held by the core of the Republican Party. The gap between us is the immigration issue and we either accept that fact and fix it, or the GOP will gradually die over the coming years and it will take the values we share with it.

Chas.


Chas, I cannot disagree with you on any particular point - I agree with the concept of Hispanics being the next best thing for the GOP. Also - I would rather back Republicans than Democrats every day of the week.

Unfortunately, as long as the GOP headlines with anti-abortion and anti-immigration stances, they are losing huge swaths of voters they need. If they simply left it to the states, and focused on the core functions of Federal Government, I personally feel they would be a more reasonable choice for many. How many folks are going to ignore all of the great ideas you have if you polarize them on a major issue close to their heart?

The ultra-conservative, fundamentalist-Right movement that was in play this election fell on it's face; the Tea Party is a joke, and folks want compromise. Until the GOP can stand back and respect the rights of the States to govern individual rights on their own, instead of forcing down major issues such as DOMA, abortion, etc....those should not be legislative issues - those are individual rights, period. The people have spoken. Time for the GOP to accept that and move on - or the part WILL fall. Immigration is a legislative issue, and they should have headlined with that.

I would hate to see the GOP marginalize themselves into obscurity by trying to stick to an all-or-nothing policy on Christian-based family values. What values my family follows and espouses is none of the Federal Government's business, never has been, never should be. Christian or otherwise.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby VMI77 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:17 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Most Americans and the vast majority of Republicans have precious little in common with libertarians, whether with a big or little "L." If that were not true, the Libertarian Party would have made gains in the political arena and it hasn't. Becoming more liberal or libertarian would be counterproductive, would alienate the core of the GOP and the Hispanic community we so desperately need, and kill the GOP.

Chas.


I don't think that's necessarily the case, though it probably looked that way in this election with the ridiculous emphasis on drugs and homosexual marriage. The Libertarian party has the same problem as the Republican party --it's been taken over by opportunists and hucksters and has abandoned core principles. A good deal of "official" libertarianism has become nothing more than rationalization for greed and an excuse for morally questionable and predatory practices in pursuit of riches (and note, I didn't say "profit"). Many libertarian positions can be reconciled with conservative values because most philosophical libertarians --as opposed to opportunistic "libertarians"-- are merely advocating that the government not criminalize certain behavior, and not the behavior itself. For instance, I think drug use should be decriminalized and regulated --not necessarily made "legal"--but I don't do drugs now and still won't do drugs even if they are legal. Homosexual marriage shouldn't even be an issue because the government shouldn't be in the marriage business in the first place --marriage should be under the auspices of the churches. Most of the people I know are church going conservatives and I find very little differences between us when it comes to personal values and concepts of morality.
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Re: This Ain't Over Til We Say It's Over

Postby TexasCajun » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:03 pm

The bottom line is that the Presidential election was about what the Democrats wanted it to be about. The Republicans failed in so many areas and on so many levels because they allowed themselves to be drawn into debates that are unwinable from a populist perspective. When you add in the willingness of the mainstream media to paint conservatives as out of touch, prudish, and old-fashioned; the results shouldn't have been a surprise. It didn't help that some conservatives seemed to be more than willing to stand up and proclaim their prudishness and out of touch attitude. Then there are the Libertarians - who seem to be more like a collection of single-issue Republicans that felt like they didn't have a voice in the GOP. Of course this is now all hindsight.
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