Search found 11 matches

by mojo84
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:47 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:35 am
mojo84 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:23 am

Here's a twist, I disagree with the idea that one should be required to orally or verbally as some advocate in order to have them not open carry in the place of business. I believe it should be up to the property owner to decide how they want to interact and notify the customer.
OK, just curious. How else would a property owner notify someone that they don't like open carry, if they don't post a sign and also don't tell them orally or verbally? Are you thinking about posting a notice in the newspaper or something?

I would point out that currently a property owner is NOT required to orally or verbally notify anyone of anything. If a property owner doesn't like something, they can let people know however they want. If someone misses (or ignores) the notice, the property owner can ask them to leave. But if they want to be able to use the police that we all pay for (including the person they are having arrested), then the notification requirements should be extremely clear and unambiguous.
Of course I do not believe a notice in the paper should be required.

My comment is in response to those that claim a sign should not be sufficient notification and the manager or operator of the business should have to verbally tell someone they are not allowed to open carry. I should not have used the word "oral" in more comment. However, you are incorrect, oral or verbal notice is required.

I believe the laws and rules are unambiguous and are very clear.
by mojo84
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:34 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

mayor wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:33 am
mojo84 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:13 am
mayor wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:07 am


I like the idea of just leaving and report a theft.
Give this a shot and let us know how it works out for you.
I didn't say it is a good idea.
I guess I misinterpreted, "I like the idea of just leaving and report a theft."
by mojo84
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:31 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

If it's only proper to put up a 30.07 sign if one doesn't want open carry, how about a sign stating a baker will not bake a cake for a gay couple's wedding? Should that be required? According to the Supreme Court, a baker does not have to bake a cake for someone that their actions conflict with the baker's religious beliefs.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06 ... ouple.html
The Supreme Court ruled Monday in favor of a Colorado baker who refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple, in one of the most closely watched cases of the term.

In a 7-2 decision, the justices set aside a Colorado court ruling against the baker -- while stopping short of deciding the broader issue of whether a business can refuse to serve gay and lesbian people. The opinion was penned by Justice Anthony Kennedy, who is often the swing justice in tight cases.
by mojo84
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:13 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

mayor wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:07 am


I like the idea of just leaving and report a theft.
Give this a shot and let us know how it works out for you.
by mojo84
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:23 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:17 am
mojo84 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:51 am
oohrah wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:26 am
In fact, 30.07 does NOT apply to Law Enforcement. It only applies to persons carrying under LTC.
That's why I said the cop wouldn't have thought the sign applied to him and it would not have helped in this situation.
Correct, and just to be clear, my position that they should post signage was not aimed at this particular incident with a LEO, but rather was aimed generally at Whataburger’s refusal to post 30.07 signs while still insisting on their property right to bar open carry from their stores. As long as they (A) take that position, and (B) refuse to post the signs, they are (C) NOT doing the right thing.

I absolutely agree with the proposition that it is their property, and therefore their right to keep open carry out of their stores. That’s not the issue for me. The issue is their refusal to acknoledge that they have some kind of moral obligation to give their paying customers the only kind of proper notice recognized by the law BEFORE that customer sets foot inside the store. That refusal has several negative outcomes for everyone concerned:
  1. It places an employee in the position of having to confront an armed person about their weapon.
  2. It’s embarrassing to the person who is armed - who may, after all, not be dressed in a manner where they can simply cover it up.
  3. It creates controversy in the form of bad publicity for the gun rights crowd, and good publicity for the MAIG/MDA crowd.
Thus, it shows a profound disrespect for a segment of their customer base, and a casual disregard for their employees’ safety. Frankly, it comes off as their being afraid to face the music, and it’s a turn off. Don’t want open carry? Post the darn signs. What could be more simple than that?

I understand and appreciate your position. I do not have a strong opinion one way or another about how they notify people since the law gives both options, signs or verbally or orally on a case by case basis. Also, from a practical sense, there are so few open carriers, I doubt this issue comes up very often. I also believe their decision to do it this way allows managers and operators the opportunity to use their own discretion whether to inform and not. I can see situations when there are no other or very few customers in the restaurant and the manager or operator decides to let it slide and then other times when there may be a packed house and the manager decides to notify. I do believe if they decide to inform someone, it should be done discretely so as to not embarrass the customer.

Here's a twist, I disagree with the idea that one should be required to orally or verbally as some advocate in order to have them not open carry in the place of business. I believe it should be up to the property owner to decide how they want to interact and notify the customer.

I also want to point out, I do not believe the only option is to have the open carrier leave. All they need to do is cover up their gun. If a shoulder rig is worn, all it takes is a jacket or cover shirt.
by mojo84
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:51 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

oohrah wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:26 am
In fact, 30.07 does NOT apply to Law Enforcement. It only applies to persons carrying under LTC.
That's why I said the cop wouldn't have thought the sign applied to him and it would not have helped in this situation.
by mojo84
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:45 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

I doubt posting a 30.07 would have helped in this situation. I suspect the cop would not have thought the sign applied to him and the manager may have still refused him service upon seeing his gun.

While I would prefer signs be posted, no more often than open carriers are actually encountered in public, I can understand a company or church deciding to just address it individually if and when it comes up rather than putting up the big signs at each entrance.
by mojo84
Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:56 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

spectre wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:22 pm
slowpoke wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:46 pm
Whataburger has a policy of no open carry, but concealed is fine. Just like HEB.
:iagree: It's just a dress code policy. Whataburger isn't anti gun. Concealed carry is fine. The guy should have complied with the dress code and covered up. Show some respect for private property rights and enjoy your meal. Instead he makes the news in a major metropolitan area because he won't follow the rules. This in-your-face activism doesn't win support and his extremist behavior sets their cause back and wastes political capital. On the heels of Art Acevedo and Tony Leal openly attacking Second Amendment rights for ordinary Americans, his antics just make things worse for his profession.
:roll:
by mojo84
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:09 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

Steve W wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:54 pm
slowpoke wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:46 pm
Whataburger has a policy of no open carry, but concealed is fine. Just like HEB.
I eat there at least once a week.... No signs up so how am I supposed to know their policies???
They will notify you if you are openly carrying.
by mojo84
Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:50 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun
Replies: 131
Views: 8957

Re: Manager at Texas Whataburger denies service to detective because of his gun

Whataburger said in a statement that it was reaching out to apologize to the detective about the "unfortunate misunderstanding" and that the company would work to retrain its employees on the open-carry policy.

"We want to make it clear that he and all law enforcement are welcome in our restaurants and we're proud to serve them," the statement said.

Whataburger has been praised in the past for taking quick action in similar situations. In October, the company fired an employee who cursed at two Denison officers and refused to serve them. Whataburger also fired a worker at a Lewisville restaurant who wouldn't serve a pair of officers in 2015.

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