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jb2012 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:06 pmIf you can’t buy any of these guns in Mexico, and we are the closest country where many of these weapons ARE for sale to the general public, it’s only reasonable to believe that a number of them had to come from here; especially american made weapons. Once again, I don’t believe it is a huge problem, but I think that you have to agree that it is a problem. Is it a problem cured by any sort of gun control laws? Absolutely not.

Eta: In the end it’s all a matter of speculation, and there is really no way to know the truth.

I agree that it is all speculation and that there is a problem with some guns from here ending up there. My disagreement was on the size of the contribution to the problem made by illegal sales like fast and furious was trying to stop. I believe that most of the sale of that type are used by criminals and gangsters right here in the US. My logic says this is simply not profitable for the cartels as a way of getting arms, compared to the international arms dealers who sell large quantities at one time.

Even more, I wanted to caution people about buying into unsupported or unprovable arguments that can be used against us. If it truly is all speculation, we have to stop repeating it as if it was a fact.

jb2012 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:42 pmWe can thank “fast and furious” for a significant portion of these weapons being in their hands.

While I hate that program and see it was a mistake, I must point out that it is not the source of a significant number of weapons to the cartels. I urge people to stop repeating this claim. Think about this: If fast and furious was a significant source of firearms, then it means the claims made to justify the program are true and illegal sales in the US are a significant source also. This argues that there really is a problem with our gun sales in the US and it justifies other restrictions to help stop guns from going to criminals.

There are illegal arms dealers around the world that sell guns by the truck or train car load. Considering how may of the firearms seen in use by the cartels are fully automatic and never were registered in our NFA registry, I have a hard time believing that any sales in the US are a significant contribution to the arming of the criminals in Mexico. And I don't care how many times the media claims that the flow of guns south is a big part of the problem, until I see better evidence of it, I will not agree it is true.