Search found 7 matches

by rotor
Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:21 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign
Replies: 43
Views: 4633

Re: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign

So, the answer seems to be that perhaps a No Firearms on Premises sign does have legal bearing for a long gun even if one has a LTC. Perhaps. I guess it might cause one to take "the ride" or perhaps not depending on the LEO involved. The point seems to be that it is unsettled.
by rotor
Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:35 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign
Replies: 43
Views: 4633

Re: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
rotor wrote:
TexasJohnBoy wrote:
Gun buster sign by itself, or any other rendition of a sign that is no guns permitted, carries no weight of law. A card with the 30.06/30.07 verbiage handed to you does. Any verbal communication that you can't carry does. Of course, a 30.06/30.07 sign properly posted does as well.
Carries no weight of law for LTC holders with hand guns but does carry weight of law for non-LTC holders and for long guns. Please do not give me the "this is a LTC forum" again. Let's not state categorically that a No Firearms sign carries no weight of law. If you carry your shotgun (or your sub2000 in a briefcase) into a store with a No Firearms sign regardless of your LTC you might be cited or just asked to leave or whatever punishment they want to throw at you for trespassing. Now if it were a No Guns with the standard Beretta symbol I would agree with the "no weight". A No Firearms notice is different. Where are all the legal experts to chime in?
Semantics aside, I would disagree that you are breaking the law by carrying your sub-2000 past a sign that says "no firearms on premises". I would simply ask, "what law are you supposed to have violated in this scenario?"

Let's start with what that sign even means. The simple English definition is that there are no firearms on those particular premises. Interesting info. If this is a place that sells things, you might have thought they sold firearms. Apparently, the sign is educating you that they do not currently have any firearms for sale so you don't waste your time going in there to buy one.

Importantly, let's consider what the sign is NOT saying. It does not say that your entry is prohibited if you step onto the property carrying a firearm. To assign that meaning would require a huge leap of faith. I have driven my car with a half full tank of gas onto a gas station lot past a sign that said "no gas". Did that sign mean that entry onto these premises with gasoline is forbidden, like we are trying to read into this "no firearms" sign? If so, am I guilty of trespassing with my half tank of gas? If the owners wanted to issue a trespass warning to anyone that is carrying a firearm, or carrying gasoline, or whatever, they would have said so. Let's stop assuming that business owners are too ignorant to say what they actually mean.

It's like the humorous signs at Buffalo Wild Wings that say they "ban all guns". Those are obviously a joke since they do not in fact ban all guns. They could ban some guns, but have chosen not to do so. By posting these signs they are just pointing out the irony. If they were telling the truth and they were somehow able to ban all guns, then they couldn't have you arrested for trespassing or anything else since they would have also banned on duty LEO's at all times. Like I said. It's a humorous sign that is meant to be ironic.
So, I have had to read this thread again to see what it was about. I guess we will need a legal opinion from someone with more knowledge to tell us if a No Firearms on Premises sign has legal bearing or not. Perhaps Bill Clinton can tell us what "is" means. Would anyone here like to use the argument that they thought no firearms on premises meant that there were no firearms on the premises? The issue then is trespassing. If the place is posted No Firearms on Premises and you are C.J. and enter with your AR-15 strapped to your back are you trespassing? Perhaps a lawyer here can give us a definitive answer because I am certainly not a lawyer. Would I carry a rifle into such a place, no.
by rotor
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:03 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign
Replies: 43
Views: 4633

Re: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign

TexasJohnBoy wrote:
Gun buster sign by itself, or any other rendition of a sign that is no guns permitted, carries no weight of law. A card with the 30.06/30.07 verbiage handed to you does. Any verbal communication that you can't carry does. Of course, a 30.06/30.07 sign properly posted does as well.
Carries no weight of law for LTC holders with hand guns but does carry weight of law for non-LTC holders and for long guns. Please do not give me the "this is a LTC forum" again. Let's not state categorically that a No Firearms sign carries no weight of law. If you carry your shotgun (or your sub2000 in a briefcase) into a store with a No Firearms sign regardless of your LTC you might be cited or just asked to leave or whatever punishment they want to throw at you for trespassing. Now if it were a No Guns with the standard Beretta symbol I would agree with the "no weight". A No Firearms notice is different. Where are all the legal experts to chime in?
by rotor
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:34 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign
Replies: 43
Views: 4633

Re: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign

Grundy1133, when one says a sign has no legal weight I have to disagree and that was what my comment was about. The OP specifically asked if the No Firearms on Premises had any legal weight. He was notified that it did not for handgun carriers under their LTC. But it does have legal weight under other circumstances. It matters not what topic the post was posted on as to whether or not the sign has legal weight. It does, just not for LTC holders with a handgun.
by rotor
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:02 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign
Replies: 43
Views: 4633

Re: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign

Grundy1133 wrote:
rotor wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
chasfm11 wrote:Based on businesses like Buffalo Wild Wings, my expectation is that a business that posts any kind of a "no firearms" sign believes that they are restricting guns for anyone including those with licenses. Some businesses appear to be too lazy to do the State by State research and assume that what works in one State, works in another. I proceed with "concealed is concealed" but make sure that I'm not in a "barely concealed" setup. I've gotten more careless about that since OC passed in Texas. I'm always ready to respond, sign or not, to a verbal instruction to leave. If they don't want me there, I sure don't want to be there. We travel from State to State and I do look carefully in advance at the States where any sign carries the weight of law. Otherwise, I go about my business. I've OC enough to understand that most people aren't paying attention, even when the gun is visible.

I was just in a plumbing store last week. They had a 30.06 sign beside the front door - behind tinted glass that made it almost impossible to see standing right next to it. No way did it meet the tests for visibility in the TPC but there it was and I'm certain that they would have enforced it if I had been detected carrying there. I wasn't and have no plans to return. I'm betting that there is little difference in the mind set of many of the business owners with the "no firearms" signs and those who push the 30.06 sign requirements beyond their limits. It is just two different ways to get to the same point.
regardless of the business owners mindset, gun buster signs or "no firearms" signs aren't legally binding. only the 30.06 30.07 and 51% signs are.... like i said worst case scenario, they ask you to leave, cause legally that's all they can do. If they do ask you to leave just give a little nod and say thank you and walk out and never come back. :thumbs2:
Are you sure? What happens if you have a long gun? Are you trespassing carrying past a no firearms sign with a long gun? Your LTC means nothing in this situation. A long gun is a firearm, correct?
this is a LTC/CHL forum... if you wanna talk about rifles theres a whole sub section designated to shotguns and rifles... http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewforum.php?f=87
The OP asked if the sign carried any legal weight. My contention is that the sign does carry legal weight but not for LTC users carrying a hand gun. Similarly, a 30.06/07 sign does not prevent one from carrying a concealed rifle like a Kel-Tec sub-2000 or even an open long gun. This has been discussed many times on this forum. Your blanket statement about the signs not being legally binding I believe to be incorrect in relation to long gun firearms. Have a good day.
by rotor
Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:11 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign
Replies: 43
Views: 4633

Re: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign

Grundy1133 wrote:
chasfm11 wrote:Based on businesses like Buffalo Wild Wings, my expectation is that a business that posts any kind of a "no firearms" sign believes that they are restricting guns for anyone including those with licenses. Some businesses appear to be too lazy to do the State by State research and assume that what works in one State, works in another. I proceed with "concealed is concealed" but make sure that I'm not in a "barely concealed" setup. I've gotten more careless about that since OC passed in Texas. I'm always ready to respond, sign or not, to a verbal instruction to leave. If they don't want me there, I sure don't want to be there. We travel from State to State and I do look carefully in advance at the States where any sign carries the weight of law. Otherwise, I go about my business. I've OC enough to understand that most people aren't paying attention, even when the gun is visible.

I was just in a plumbing store last week. They had a 30.06 sign beside the front door - behind tinted glass that made it almost impossible to see standing right next to it. No way did it meet the tests for visibility in the TPC but there it was and I'm certain that they would have enforced it if I had been detected carrying there. I wasn't and have no plans to return. I'm betting that there is little difference in the mind set of many of the business owners with the "no firearms" signs and those who push the 30.06 sign requirements beyond their limits. It is just two different ways to get to the same point.
regardless of the business owners mindset, gun buster signs or "no firearms" signs aren't legally binding. only the 30.06 30.07 and 51% signs are.... like i said worst case scenario, they ask you to leave, cause legally that's all they can do. If they do ask you to leave just give a little nod and say thank you and walk out and never come back. :thumbs2:
Are you sure? What happens if you have a long gun? Are you trespassing carrying past a no firearms sign with a long gun? Your LTC means nothing in this situation. A long gun is a firearm, correct?
by rotor
Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:51 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign
Replies: 43
Views: 4633

Re: “No Firearms on Premises” Sign

I would think that it would not affect carry under 30.06/07 but would keep one from carrying a long gun.

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