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by TexasTornado
Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:33 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Warning shots at SA Little Red Barn Steakhouse
Replies: 33
Views: 3732

Re: Warning shots at SA Little Red Barn Steakhouse

WTR wrote:I think he should be charged with unlawful carry. If the restaurant serves alcohol, that is a felony, as has been pointed out.

Is it a Felony if the bar and eatery are separate and the bar is posted?
Any good lawyer is going to get that plead down to a misdemeanor offence. Depending on other factors such as the case load of the prosecuting attorney, he may even be able to walk out still eligible for the LTC he should have gotten in the first place.
by TexasTornado
Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:20 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Warning shots at SA Little Red Barn Steakhouse
Replies: 33
Views: 3732

Re: Warning shots at SA Little Red Barn Steakhouse

JALLEN wrote:
SoConfused wrote:
mojo84 wrote:
SoConfused wrote:
However, he's perfectly within his legal rights to carry concealed there without a license.
I think you are confused. ;-) It is not perfectly legal to do so since the owner of the property and business has advised the employees there is a no guns policy.

However, I would be interested in your reasoning or logic. I wouldn't claim his being an employee of the owner gives him the right. That won't fly.
Ha! I like what you did there. :lol:

I believe the waiter was legally carrying on premises under his control. This is evidenced by the fact that any employee has apparent authority to ask someone with an LTC to leave.

There's also the common practice of giving waiters a section of the premises in which to work that are then under their control.

We'll see if he's charged, but if he does get a charge of unlawful carrying of weapons, he'll only be convicted by not having enough money for a quality defense that can twist the definition of "premises" and "control" into what he needs them to be. That would be very bad for him since there's alcohol served there, bumping it up to a Felony.
That is a fairly extreme interpretation of what reality most often is.

You say the waiter had "control" of a section he worked in. What did he control? Not who sat in his section. The host or hostess decides which patrons go to which tables, usually. The waiter has no control over what food or drinks the guests will ask for, or be offered. The waiter has no control over what tables and chairs the patrons have to sit at or who they sit next to or what they discuss. Nor does a waiter control what prices they are to be charged for the items they order. The waiter has no control over the patrons who may sit, walk around, go to restrooms, out to their cars, return, eat and drink as they like or not, etc. as they please.

What exactly might a waiter "control?" I haven't thought of anything. I guess if another waiter enters "his area" he can complain to the management or something.
They do control if/when you get refills and if your food is still hot when it reaches your table.
by TexasTornado
Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:51 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Warning shots at SA Little Red Barn Steakhouse
Replies: 33
Views: 3732

Re: Warning shots at SA Little Red Barn Steakhouse

SoConfused wrote:
mojo84 wrote:
SoConfused wrote:
mojo84 wrote:
SoConfused wrote:
However, he's perfectly within his legal rights to carry concealed there without a license.
I think you are confused. ;-) It is not perfectly legal to do so since the owner of the property and business has advised the employees there is a no guns policy.

However, I would be interested in your reasoning or logic. I wouldn't claim his being an employee of the owner gives him the right. That won't fly.
Ha! I like what you did there. :lol:

I believe the waiter was legally carrying on premises under his control. This is evidenced by the fact that any employee has apparent authority to ask someone with an LTC to leave.

There's also the common practice of giving waiters a section of the premises in which to work that are then under their control.

We'll see if he's charged, but if he does get a charge of unlawful carrying of weapons, he'll only be convicted by not having enough money for a quality defense that can twist the definition of "premises" and "control" into what he needs them to be. That would be very bad for him since there's alcohol served there, bumping it up to a Felony.
That argument might fly if the owner hadn't advised the employees of the no gun policy. Even in the analogy you provide, the owner or superior can overrule a subordinates directive. A subordinate cannot overrule a superior's decision or directive. Real authority is not overridden by someone' else's "apparent". The owner has real authority.
It'll be interesting to see if the employers policy has force of law. I don't think it does. Obviously the employer can fire him for violating policy, but as far as criminal consequences go, the most I could see happening is a criminal trespass warning.

I'm anxious to see the outcome. I'm up for a gentleman's bet that there won't be an unlawful carrying of weapons charge. :cheers2: Of course the actual discharging of that weapon in a crowded restaurant is a whole other stupid act with its own consequences, both criminal and civil.

I foresee the waiter being out of a job and (with a good lawyer) receiving a fine for discharging his firearm.

In my opinion just deserts....

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