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Soccerdad1995

AJSully421 wrote:Trey and SoccerDad,

I hear what you are saying... but there is more to it than just that.

I used the example of a family member in the hospital on purpose. The conundrums of the law are that Hospitals are listed in 46.035 (b)(4) as being statutorily off-limits. Then in 46.035 (i), it states that (b)(4) does not apply if you were not given effective notice under 30.06 or .07. Then 46.035 (m) goes on to mention VESPs who are performing emergency services have a defense to prosecution under sections (b) and (c).

I agree that 30.06 pretty much says you have a defense to prosecution all of the time. But it is a Defense to Prosecution, not an exemption, or a "does not apply"... I think that we have beat that dead horse enough around here.

What 46.035 (i) does not say is that (b)(4) does not apply if you have a defense to prosecution under 30.06 or .07... it says if you were not given effective notice... such as if there was no sign, or it was an old sign, or too small of a sign, wrong wording, not contrasting against the background, and so on.

46.035, 30.06 and 30.07 apply to LTC holders licensed under Chapter 411 of the Government code... that is source of their "permission to carry".

As a body guard, my "permission to carry" comes from Section 1702 of the Occupations Code, not 411 of the Government code. As such I am not subject to those laws while I am performing my duties, and visiting my wife or kid in the hospital, who is under contract, would qualify as "performing my duties".

By the way... you should also take note that the prohibition on carrying in 51% establishments is also listed in 46.035 under (b)(1). "Designated Carrier and Driver" anyone???

I can't speak for Trey, but I believe that you and I are in agreement. By "statutorily restricted locations" I was including locations that are restricted in 46.035 but that require 30.06 notice such as hospitals. Bars also fit in the same situation. For those types of locations, being a VESP would not be enough, unless you were actively engaged in performing emergency services. So if there is a hurricane, and the relief shelter you are volunteering at happens to be in a posted 51% location, you are OK, but being a designated driver during a non-emergency situation is not enough.

I think that what you are saying is the benefit to being a licensed bodyguard is that you are "on duty" much more often than a VESP would be engaged in providing emergency services, since you would be "on duty" whenever your family / protectee is present. But this distinction only really matters for statutorily prohibited locations. If we are talking about the common situation of encountering a 30.06 sign while walking into a store, a VESP does not need to be performing emergency services at all. Since this latter situation is much more likely, for me, I personally am mainly focused there as opposed to hospitals / bars, etc.

And I am not worried about the distinction regarding a "defense to prosecution". I will just say that if one is terrified at the thought of "taking a ride" then they probably should not carry a gun past a sign that meets all the wording and size requirements of 30.06, regardless of anything else.

Soccerdad1995

Keith B wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:
You guys are not reading this right. (Editing now)
How are we not reading it right?

I'm anxiously awaiting this as well. Here is my take. For non-statutorily restricted locations like a private residence or private business, 30.06 would be the relevant standard, not 46.035. And 30.06 does not include any requirement for a Volunteer Emergency Services Personnel to be actively providing services. A VESP would need to be actively providing services to be OK for carry in statutorily restricted locations, however. So donating blood at a hospital, or volunteering at a blood drive would be OK if the blood drive was in response to an emergency situation.

Personally, I am not as concerned about statutorily prohibited locations since I am in such places at most 1% of my time.

Soccerdad1995

priusron wrote:Can you send me info also.

# me too

Soccerdad1995

AJSully421 wrote:Step 1. Join Texas Defense Force Security- the only not for profit volunteer Security Company in the State of Texas.

Step 2. Get a Level 4 PPO (Body Guard) License.

Step 3. Have us sign your family on a gratis body guard contract.

Step 4. You are not subject to 30.06 if carrying concealed in plain clothes and you are with any member of your family listed on the contract. (You would be carrying under the authority of 1702 of the Occupations Code, not Government Code 411). This includes any place listed in 46.035 for the same reason.

Step 5. Stop worrying about the minutia of quite possibly the dumbest law in the State of Texas.

This is one of several exceptions to the 30.06 restrictions. You could also check the definition of a Volunteer Emergency Service Provider and see if you are already excepted, or if you can get there fairly easily.

Or you could get qualified as a LEO (LEOSA). That will probably be the most difficult option.

Or just start carrying a folding rifle in a "man purse" or computer bag instead of a handgun.

Personally, I wish we would just get rid of this whole dance and simply say that property owners can ask anyone they want to leave, for any reason (protected classes exempted). But you are not committing trespass unless you are told to leave. None of this bull about "you can come in, but only if you hop on one leg and twirl around 3 times", or "only if you are not wearing underwear", or "only if you are not carrying a handgun". Allowing property owners to set conditions upon the grant of entry makes sense, but those conditions should be limited to things that could potentially negatively impact the property owner, or at least to things they can actually see, IMHO.

Soccerdad1995

Mike S wrote:
Pritchical wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:"Property" is generally defined to include not just the building(s) but also any surrounding parking lots, and other land. So a 30.07 sign posted at the door to a building may not actually be posted at the entrance to the property, as required by the statute.

That said, it's a bit of a moot point since you may likely get verbal notice if you OC into such a building.
Property /= premises, and premises is only the inside. Specifically worded NOT to include the parking lots, driveways, sidewalks and other land outside the offices. So a doctor's office cannot post the outside of the parking lot and legally keep you from carrying there.
I would respectfully disagree. The language of 30.06/30.07 is "property", not "premises". As such, the entrance to the property could be posted, which would prohibit your entry with whichever mode of carry the signage references 'under the authority of the LTC'. However, this wouldn't prohibit your ability to enter the parking lot with a handgun in your vehicle under the MPA.

I agree with Mike S. 30.07 uses "property", not premises. The prohibition covers the entire property, and the signage needs to be at every public entrance to the property, not the premises. So a 30.07 sign on a building would not be valid if the property also includes a parking lot. Of course, you will likely get verbal notice if you OC into such a building...

I also agree on the MPA exception as well as LEOSA and a host of others.

Soccerdad1995

imkopaka wrote:That was the goal of the law, but was never codified as such. As the law is written, a 30.06 sign must be displayed in a "conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public." Inside doors would qualify as long as they are public doors. Inside the store on a big billboard would technically qualify if everyone could easily see it.

30.07 is another story. The law states that those signs must be posted "in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property." Even so, the inner door is still part of the entrance, so in this case it would still count.

IANAL.

"Property" is generally defined to include not just the building(s) but also any surrounding parking lots, and other land. So a 30.07 sign posted at the door to a building may not actually be posted at the entrance to the property, as required by the statute.

That said, it's a bit of a moot point since you may likely get verbal notice if you OC into such a building.

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