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RebornJames wrote: ↑Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:51 pm There is an interpretation that says if a handgun is available to you then you are carrying, whether in a glove compartment or under the seat...

That's what I thought. So if the handgun is "available" to me, then I am carrying it. And if it is also in a belt or shoulder holster while also available to me, then I am "carrying" the gun "in a belt or shoulder holster". I don't see how this fails to meet the statutory requirement for OC (assuming one has a valid LTC). In other words, a gun in a belt or shoulder holster that is in plain view should not be an issue, even if that holster is not attached to your body.

Disclaimer - IANAL, and even if I am correct, I can't guarantee that an aggressive LEO / DA might not charge you anyway. It definitely wouldn't be the first time that someone got arrested for something that was legal (if that never happened, we wouldn't really need judges or juries when you think about it).

Also, as I previously noted, there are other reasons why having a gun in plain view in a vehicle is a bad idea. The only time this ever actually is applicable to me is for that split second that I am moving my holstered gun from under the seat before the first snap of my holster makes contact with my belt. And I try to always make sure no one is watching me while I do that.

apostate wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:But back to the first requirement of "carrying" the handgun. The second sentence then says that it is an exception if the handgun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster. So unless the term "carry" changes definition between the first and second sentences of this statute, a gun that is in a belt holster anywhere in your vehicle is either "not carried" because it is not "on or about" your person (say in the back seat maybe), or it is "carried" because it is closer to you, but you then have the exception provided for in the second sentence.

There's ample case law that a handgun under a car seat, in the glove box, or laying on the dashboard is "on or about" ones person. I'm not aware of any case law that says "a shoulder or belt holster" can be strapped to the steering wheel to allow one to legally carry a handgun in plain view in a car. It would be an interesting argument to make in court, provided I'm not the defendant.

I thought the OC statute actually said that you were OK if you were carrying a gun "on or about" your person and the gun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster. Maybe I am wrong on that. But if not, then the only relevant questions should be whether the gun is in a shoulder or belt holster (s/b very obvious, I think), and whether the gun is carried "on or about" your person, as defined by previous case law. If the answer to that one is "no", then the whole issue is moot since you aren't carrying in the first place. I don't believe that the statute language requires the holster to be physically attached to your body, but I could be wrong. This all assumes that we are talking about a handgun, and it is not concealed, and you have an LTC.

I conceal my guns while in a car, unless I am OC'ing, so this is a bit of a moot point. But it becomes relevant when I take the snap on holster from under my seat and attach it as I am exiting the vehicle. There is a very short time (approximately 1 second) when the gun / holster is visible, is in my hand, but is not attached to my belt. If a LEO happened to be sitting in the parking lot at just the right angle, they might be able to see the gun, which would then make the above distinction more relevant to me.

skeathley wrote:If it is in a belt holster (or not), and can be readily seen from outside of the vehicle, and a LEO sees it, you are going to jail.

A holster means nothing unless it is on your person, or you are in premises under your control, or it is out of sight in your vehicle. This assumes you have an LTC.

Do you have a link for this?

Assuming that the relevant code section is 46.035(a), then I think there is a bit of circular logic here.

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.

The first sentence says that it is only an offense if a license holder is "carrying" a handgun "on or about the license holder's person", and then "intentionally displays" the handgun in plain view of another person...

So this seems to require the license holder to: 1) "Carry" the handgun. The term "carry" being clarified as being "on or about" the license holder; and then also 2) intentionally display the handgun in plain view of another person. A handgun covered by your leg that becomes visible as you exit the vehicle does not seem to meet this requirement (assuming here that you only exit the vehicle on the instructions of a LEO).

But back to the first requirement of "carrying" the handgun. The second sentence then says that it is an exception if the handgun was carried in a shoulder or belt holster. So unless the term "carry" changes definition between the first and second sentences of this statute, a gun that is in a belt holster anywhere in your vehicle is either "not carried" because it is not "on or about" your person (say in the back seat maybe), or it is "carried" because it is closer to you, but you then have the exception provided for in the second sentence.

Is there another code section that is clearer on this?

DevilDawg wrote:I have a similar product mounts to the side of the console and use a beltholster with a metal belt clip to hold it in place. I am thereby using a belt holster as required in the eye of the law, and my trigger is protected from accidental contact. It allows me to place it in a convenient position for me, but easily concealed by my leg while driving.

If it's concealed it doesn't need to be in a belt holster (or a holster at all for that matter). Personally, I would toss a T-shirt over it regardless in case I ever got out of the vehicle without the gun (like when I am walking into my office). No need to advertise that my vehicle has a firearm in it.

mloamiller wrote:I would guess your instructor was thinking about the holster requirement for open carry, even in your car. Using something like this would raise the question "how concealed is concealed?" If it's tucked way up under dash, is that concealed? I don't think that would meet the criteria, but that's just an opinion.

I have two other issues with something like this you might want to consider:
1. There is no protection for the trigger. How easy would it be when reaching for that gun in a hurry to accidently put your finger inside the trigger guard, pull the trigger and put a hole in your floorboard, possibly your foot?
2. What will happen to the gun if you have an accident?

Personally, I would not use one of these, but would look at one of the holsters that can be attached to the car instead. if it's attached under a dash, it still raises the "concealed" question, however.

It depends on how "tucked away" it is. Basically, the question is "can you see the gun from outside the vehicle"? If the answer is no, then you are concealed. If someone has to open the door and stick their head under the dash to see the gun, then it is concealed.

If in doubt, you could always attach a cloth of some type to further cover the weapon.