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Jumping Frog wrote:TAM, the ATF does not classify a 72-hour observation as an involuntary comittment for federal firearm disability purposes. Read the FAQ that I linked above.

Well, I'm not trying to argue with you, but I think that in this political climate, with this administration, and this ATF, (particularly in light of the recent Aurora theater shooting) I wouldn't be so sure how "they" interpret that, because, at least in California, a 5150 hold is NOT voluntary. The legal instrument of 5150 means that it doesn't matter what the patient's opinion is—he/she has no say in the matter of their case disposition. And if that 72 involuntary hold is extended to 15 days, that is not voluntary either. "Voluntary" means that the subject patient asked to be hospitalized without ever having had an involuntary hold placed on them. But as I said in my previous post, I don't know for sure what Texas law says about this.....only that I assume something similar. Speaking purely philosophically, I view depriving a citizen of their freedom without due process—as in a chance to confront one's accuser with an advocate defending you—is terribly wrong. I think we can make a case for 72 hour holds in the event of a psychotic crisis, but converting that to 15 days without the patient's consent and without a courtroom hearing and the involvement of a judge and jury is wrong because it is too easy for "powers that be" to abuse it without consequence.

Also, as someone who has worked in healthcare, I am more than aware that even an involuntary commission doesn't necessarily mean that a person is permanently "crazy" or that—at least from a moral/ethical perspective, regardless of what the law says—such a person ought to be barred by law from ever owning a firearm again. Mental illness, or at lease some manifestations of it, can be cured. In my humble opinion, if a person had been hospitalized and successfully treated for some kind of schizophrenic episode or suicidal tendencies when they were 21, and then had subsequently lived for decades after without any recurrence, then a law which disarms that person is a immoral law.

That's just my opinion......but that doesn't mean that some liberal psychiatrist who hates guns and who is employed by a government agency is going to agree with me; and it certainly doesn't mean that the congress critters who wrote the law knew a darn thing about psychiatry when they wrote it. And that is the spirit behind what I posted to the OP. Personally, I have no problem with him/her having a firearm, or carrying it, and I would encourage it. I'm just not so sanguine about what government will do about it.

But that's just my opinion, and it's worth about what it cost to read it.

loblolly wrote:As far as buying my gun, I bought it through a dealer and answered no to being involuntarily commited. I very honestly did not think about it when I filled out the form-its so far in my past. I am certain that I signed myself in to the hospital; however, the application states even a voluntary stay at a psychiatric facility is a disqualification unless I can prove I am now fine. Like I said, it was a lifetime ago for me. I am willing to do what I need to do b/c at this time, I hesitate to hike, camp, ride my horses or bike alone in remote areas and I want a sense of security (even if it is a false sense of security). Im a small female and know Im no match physically for the average sized man.

So, does anyone know of a good second ammendment supporting psychiatrist in the north houston area?

Hi loblolly. Welcome to the forum, by the way. What follows is absolutely without judgement on my part, but just something to think about with your suicide attempt and subsequent hospitalization......

I don't know what they call it here in Texas, but when I worked in a large ER back in California there was a thing called a 5150. If a patient arrived in our ER having made an attempt on their life, or having attempted to hurt someone else during a psychotic episode, they would be examined by whatever mental health professional was on call for that shift. If that patient was deemed to still be a risk of harm to themselves or others, they would be put on a "5150," which means that they are placed on a 72 hour psychiatric hold and moved to a psychiatric facility for further observation and treatment. If 72 hours is not enough time to get them through that crisis, or the mental illness is more profound, then the psychiatrist in charge of the case can extend the psychiatric hold for another 15 days. Once that 15 days is passed, then the patient must either be released, or hospitalized/institutionalized for long term care.

The point of all this is that I have seen many 5150 patients who were cooperative with what was happening to them, and even wanted the intervention and were glad that the system was responding to their need, BUT, they were not being "voluntarily" committed. That particular decision was entirely in the hands of the mental health professional managing their case, and the person under threat of 5150 had no say whatsoever in it. I am assuming that Texas has some similar psychiatric instrument for the managing of acute psychiatric episodes in an emergency room. If that is the case, you may very well remember your commission as voluntary because you wanted the help, but in the end the decision wasn't yours to make, and that might be the difference between eligible and not eligible.

Best of luck and blessings to you. I certainly hope that this all works out well for you. For what it's worth, my experience is that people who really want to die succeed in doing it. All the rest are just trying to get help, and they're desperate and don't know how else to get the attention/help they need. But they don't truly want to die. Having had two successful suicides happen in my life in recent years, this is a painful subject for me. One of them was a long time friend and my employer who killed himself in late 2007. The other is a distant family member of mine who killed himself just a week ago.