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03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:43 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:08 pm

John Galt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:36 pm Then addition to the rifle, one needs a sturdy optic and mount, which aren't cheap.

Exactly. Mine has a nice Vortex Viper PST II on it, on a BOBRO mount. And then there's the cost of a suppressor. And new magazines for the OEM lower receiver run about $40/ea. And then there’s the whole new lower receiver you have to buy if you want to use SR25 or PMAG magazines. Those have come down in price to only $235. They used to be over $400. Do you want a longer rail system? That’ll run you another couple of hundred $$. And then there's the ACR stock conversion kits, and on and on....

....but otherwise it’s a perfect rifle.....

I am largely kidding, of course. The scope I put on my SCAR was one I already had. The suppressor is a Form 1 I was building anyway. I had purchased 3-4 extra magazines on my own, but then a friend of mine put a Handl Defense lower on his, and he sold me another half dozen OEM mags for cheap. So I’ve already got about 10 OEM magazines that didn’t cost me that much. Plus, I saw the other day that Promag now makes an inexpensive aftermarket polymer magazine that fits the OEM lower.

As far as the "Ugg Boot" OEM buttstock goes, it’s actually a pretty nice stock, and I have no problems with mine. My friend who sold me his magazines was medically retired out of MARSOC after sustaining a devastating arm injury from a land mine. He has multiple tours in Iraq/Afghanistan under his belt, and as MARSOC, he frequently worked alongside Army Special Forces units....and they had SCAR Heavies on their trucks. Apparently, they also carried a spare OEM buttstock on their trucks because there had been some instances of SCAR buttstocks being more easily damaged by combat abuse than say an SR25 buttstock. I don’t know how prevalent the problem actually was, and it may be that having a spare was only out of an abundance of caution. It only takes a minute or two to swap out the stock, so they carried a spare. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect that the weakness is at the folding hinge-work. But realistically, the buttstock works just fine and is more than strong enough.

Anyway, you can buy an adapter that allows you to mount the folding stock from a Bushmaster ACR. It IS a nicer looking stock, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a functional improvement. I’ve left my OEM stock on, and have no plans to replace it. I don’t think it’s that ugly, and it is comfortable and works just fine.

I haven’t bothered with modifications like the Handl lower receiver or the rail extension because they add weight to an otherwise fairly light .308 battle rifle. I weighed mine when I first got it, and it came in at an honest 8.0 lbs even without a scope or magazine. It weighs 9.25 oz less than my iron-sighted 20" M16/A4 replica....weighed on the same scale.

The only significant upgrade I’ve made to mine is the addition of a Timney 3.5 lb drop in trigger. The OEM triggers on SCAR 17s are horrible. They’re not even as good as a mil-spec AR15 trigger. Pull weight is a gritty 8+ lbs, so the Timney is a VAST improvement. I don’t count swapping muzzle devices out to accommodate a suppressor as a "necessary" upgrade. The OEM PWS muzzle brake is excellent, and is one of the reasons that a light .308 recoils about like an AR15. If I wasn’t trying to suppress the rifle, I’d have left the PWS on.

The real reason that the SCAR 17S aftermarket isn’t so expensive is the economies of scale. Not that many people will buy a $3000 battle rifle, when they can get a perfectly good one for less than half that price—think AR10/FAL/M1A/Etc—even though the SCAR is a VERY nice rifle, and in my opinion, better than those others for several reasons. Similarly, now that the numbers of SCAR 17S has slowly increased, the cost of major upgrades has come down....hence the Handl lowers which used to be priced between $400-$600, now costing in the mid-$200 range. But you would still have to spend a fair amount of money to upgrade any one of those platforms to features that you get right out of the box with a SCAR. OTH, those other rifles are all pretty nice. I’ve owned an AR10 and an M1A before and enjoyed them. I’d like to pick up a FAL some day....preferably a Para with the 18” barrel and folding stock.

John Galt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:36 pm Then addition to the rifle, one needs a sturdy optic and mount, which aren't cheap.

Exactly. Mine has a nice Vortex Viper PST II on it, on a BOBRO mount. And then there's the cost of a suppressor. And new magazines for the OEM lower receiver run about $40/ea. And then there’s the whole new lower receiver you have to buy if you want to use SR25 or PMAG magazines. Those have come down in price to only $235. They used to be over $400. Do you want a longer rail system? That’ll run you another couple of hundred $$. And then there's the ACR stock conversion kits, and on and on....

John Galt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:53 pm

philip964 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:19 pm I feel after reading this thread, I am 14 again reading about the new Shelby Mustang and is it better than last years.

I’ll continue to dream about owning one of these.

I mulled over the price and purchase for about four years. When you can swing it, it will be a great purchase.

I took mine in barter for building a website for an FFL. Otherwise, I’d likely still not have one yet.... not because I wouldn’t lust after one, but because $3000+ is still $3000+.

John Galt wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:05 am I recently purchased a 17s and am elated with it. The 17s has a surprisingly light recoil, but I would imagine that the 20s is the same.

Wait until you suppress it. It gets even softer shooting, and a LOT quieter. Here’s mine with a Form 1 can on it. Notice that neither I nor my son needed earpro....

C-dub wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:03 pm The 20S comes with a super SCAR Gieselle 3.5-4.5 2-stage trigger.

Well there’s $325 of your price increase right there. Good.

I will say this, whichever one you pick, you’re going to flat love the barrel. FN makes really good barrels.

The Marshal wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:18 pm You are welcome to shoot mine again when we go to the Range, C-Dub.

Personally, I prefer the SCAR over the AR platform, and the 17S will be the last gun in the Safe if it came to that.

C-dub wrote: ↑Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:35 pm [quote="The Marshal" post_id=<a href="tel:1229926">1229926</a> time=<a href="tel:1542309483">1542309483</a> user_id=736]
You are welcome to shoot mine again when we go to the Range, C-Dub.

Personally, I prefer the SCAR over the AR platform, and the 17S will be the last gun in the Safe if it came to that.

Hey there Bud.

I’m pretty sure I have shot yours before. Have read about the 20S?

BTW, my daughter and I are planning to head out to the club on Thanksgiving day. If you’re interested I’ll let you know for sure in s few days.

If I didn’t already own a 17S, I would wonder about the 20S, but I’m not sure if it is worth the extra $1500 or so it would cost above the price of the 17S. Each has its advantages, and here is a rough comparison.

Accuracy: I’m sure the 20S is probably more accurate, and with its longer barrel can probably develop a little more velocity/range. Balanced against that, the 17S is crazy accurate for a battle rifle. The very first time I took mine to a range, after zeroing, it put a string of 10 rounds into 3/4” at 100 yards, with commercially remanufactured 168 grain match. I have a bolt action in the same caliber that won’t do that. A friend of mine (ex MARSOC sniper) was shooting 1 MOA with his 17S at 800 yards at ETTS range, using bulk 150 grain FMJ. If you were trying to get out to 1000 yards, the 20S would probably be the better rifle, but for anything out to 800 yards (which is a LONG dang distance if you’ve never done it before), the 17S is up to the tax.

Trigger: I don’t know if the 20S comes with the same trigger as the 17S, but the OEM 17S trigger was a horrible and gritty 8 lb. I replaced mine with a drop in 3.5 lb Timney, at a cost of about $340. If you’re considering the 20S, I would verify the trigger pull before spending the money, if you’re going to have to drop another $340 to make the rifle shootable at distance, as that might help you to choose between the two rifles. The Timney is crisp and light with a short reset, and the cost is well worth the improvement. Alternatively, Geissele also makes a trigger for the SCAR with is a vast improvement.

Weight: The extra 4” of barrel and that chassis on the 20S comes with a weight penalty. The 17S is an honest 8 lb gun sans optic or loaded magazine. FN claims the 20S weighs 11.2 lbs with no optics and an empty magazine. Since they claim 8 lbs for the 17S and that’s what it actually weighs, the 11.2 lbs is probably accurate. If you’re planning on toting the gun around, that matters.

Sights/Optics: I don’t know what iron sights come on the 20S, if any, but the OEM iron sights on the 17S are pretty decent. You’ll probably want to scope either rifle. Right now, I have a 4-14x50mm Viper PST FFP on my 17S, and I can tell you that is too much scope for the rifle. Knowing what I know now, I would replace that with a 2-10x34mm Viper PST FFP if I hadn’t already spent the money. Alternatively, it lends itself well to a fixed power ACOG type of optic. Whatever you pick for an optic, regardless of which rifle you get, buy a scope that is sturdy and can take a beating. While the 5.56mm 16S is a pussycat, the 17S is known to beat scopes to death. I have not noticed anything bad happening to my Viper PST, but scope issues are a problem that gets talked about on the Interwebs .... so it must be true, right? But my main reason for regretting the scope I put on my SCAR is its size, which is what I meant by “too much” scope. A relatively light carbine length weapon needs a light scope.

So, as with all rifles, whether you buy the 17s or the 20s should depend on how you think you’ll use it. If you’re happy with an 800 yard rifle, the 17S will make you happy. If you need more range than that, the 20S is the one for you. Walking around, pick the 17. Benchresting, pick the 20. Personally, I am not convinced that the 20S is worth the extra money.....but that’s just ME.