Search found 20 matches

by 03Lightningrocks
Fri Jan 13, 2023 3:34 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

I like your analysis. :tiphat:
by 03Lightningrocks
Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:40 am
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

chasfm11 wrote: Fri Jan 13, 2023 8:00 am I'll say again that I'm a supporter of the police. I am. I mean it. But I hold no hope at all that the FWPD leadership will learn anything from this incident. Am I happy that the officer was sent to jail for more than 10 years? Absolutely not. I believe that the verdict further assures a chasm between the FWPD and the community that it serves.

I'm not smart enough to know what the right policies regarding these types of calls need to be. How do we make sure that this outcome isn't repeated? But what I believe is that FWPD leadership is strongly anti-armed citizen. They are not alone within the police ranks in that feeling and I believe that it clouds their thinking at that operational level. And their officers end up paying the price for that mindset when the public pushes back. On the opposite side, this was more politics than reality. The ethnicity of those involved was the main component. I also blame the PD leadership, along with the PD leadership in other places where it has treated Waller-like situations without careful consideration. The public then comes to view this as the second in a pattern and not a unique matter.

I'm strongly opposed to no-knock raids. I won't cause thread drift by going into that here. I realize that there can be bad consequences for the police announcing themselves under some circumstances. But it would seem that is a better path than the one we are on. Maybe that is only me.
I agree completely and would like to add in a serious consequence that maybe you were getting at but not specific about of situations like this. Police officers start to become hesitant to enforce the law out of the concern/fear of it escalating or even hesitate when confronting an armed criminal and get killed out of the fear of not only losing their jobs/livelihood but possibly going to jail. Many of us say the police mostly just arrive in time to make a report of the crime. It is not going to change with things like this occurring. That is for sure.

Like you, I won't pretend to have the answers but here we are. Now what is coming next? It is not likely to get better.
by 03Lightningrocks
Tue Dec 20, 2022 7:18 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

carlson1 wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 3:15 pm Fox 4 News
Former Fort Worth police officer Aaron Dean will spend behind bars 11 years, 10 months and 12 days for the killing of Atatiana Jefferson on Tuesday afternoon.
After watching that video, I am wishing I had watched the trial. Mr. Branca seems set that this was an unjust conviction and sentence based on the facts of the situation. I wondered from the beginning why the officers didn't call for back up and set up a perimeter around the house. It seems like this would have been more clear cut had they confronted her standing in the yard with an arm load of valuables. For now, all I can think of is how it could be me a cop shoots while standing in my own home holding a handgun. There is nothing illegal about standing in my home with a gun in my hand.
by 03Lightningrocks
Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:13 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

Ruark wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 4:55 pm
philip964 wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:26 pm
What happened to take a protective position, gun out at the front door and shout “ police. Is everything ok”
Well... yeah.... so a burglar's going to say, "no, it's not OK, I'm burglarizing the house...." ???
You are kidding, right? In high crime areas, calling 911 for a cop will always get a reaction from the cops based on the 911 complainant. Usually a negative reaction with extreme caution and maybe even a little fear involved. For instance, a recent police shooting where the caller said, " there is a man out front firing his rifle at his house while he screams something at it". Then of coarse we have the human factor of what the dispatcher relays to the police. That always has a translation gap as well. I am not saying the cop was right. Quite the contrary, he screwed up big time IMHO. There is NOTHING illegal about carrying a weapon around the inside of your home, even with the laser sight on full blaze. It is the cops job to make sure it is not just an innocent homeowner before shooting. Especially when said homeowner is not firing at them. Laser pointers are not punishable by lethal force.

You know it is funny. During nice or mild weather I leave my back door hanging open while my dog is out back doing his business. When I do this, I am holding my handgun in my right hand in case anyone is stupid enough to see the door open and try to do a home invasion. Well what if my neighbor calls in and tells them my back door is hanging open and the lights in my house are off. Which they usually are when I do this. I smoke in my house. I live alone with no kids. I like to air out the house when I can. I cannot imagine a Plano Police officer standing out in my yard and blasting me inside my house. Even if he sees I am holding a gun. This cop way over reacted and is now going to pay a price for it. Maybe his mens jewels were way to small for that job.
by 03Lightningrocks
Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:11 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

Ruark wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 2:08 pm Another possible element of this picture is the nature of the original phone call. Just possible. Did the caller say something like, "I noticed my neighbor's door was open, any chance you could stop by and take a look?" Or did he say something like, "Help! Somebody's burglarizing my neighbor's house! Hurry, they're still in there!!"

Sounds to me like this officer was definitely at fault in several different ways, but in any case, this might be a significant component of the picture.
It is a fact that idiots make 911 calls creating very serious situations out of nothing.
by 03Lightningrocks
Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:18 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

chasfm11 wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 2:25 pm
Dragonfighter wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 10:00 am

What's the mixed feeling? Both were testified to and both were supported by the fact pattern. The problem a lot of people have is she wasn't a bad guy. There weren't any "bad guys" in this instant. Sadly, that happens regularly. The facts, including Dean's testimony would back up her justified use of force if she was the one left standing.

My problem was the ungodly malpractice by the prosecutors and a feckless defense. Watching this and a few other trials gavel to gavel scared the daylights out of me. I dropped the trigger on some insurance.
The mixed feeling is that she, like Jerry Waller, were in their homes doing nothing wrong and both ended up dead at the hands of a police officer. To believe that is OK is to believe that there is not a reason for someone to have a self-defense handgun on the outside chance that a police officer will show up at their house and kill them because of it.
1. The police have operate on the premise that the home owner might be legally armed if there is not a direct reason to KNOW otherwise. The suspicion of a POSSIBLE burglary is not sufficient Was the chance of catching a burglar in the act worth an innocent person's life? That as exactly the same premise as Waller.
2. The police testimony in the Waller case was as iron clad as it was in this one. Unfortunately, there is no badge came (at least that I've seen or heard about) to corroborate those statements. I'm sorry but to believe that she was well versed in the use of a laser and he didn't enve know how to turn that laser off is a stretch of imagination for me.

Like others on this forum, I'm a strong supporter of the police. That does not mean that I agree with every thing that they do. I imagine myself in this same situation as this woman that that scares me.
I agree 100%. It is not unusual for me to be carrying a firearm through my house. Heck, I could be simply cleaning one of them and walking back from my gun safe. I have also sat on my living room sofa and pointed my laser at an outside wall with it to check if it is lining up with my sights. When I let my dog out at night, I carry a handgun to the door with me and stand there watching while he does his business. No cop should ever start blasting away at a person holding a gun in their own home. Now if I am firing the gun out my window, that is a whole different situation. This officer needs jail time and to forever be forbidden any kind of law enforcement job for life and this includes being a mall cop. His judgement skills are that of a scared child. Laser or not, he could simply have taken cover and shouted inside that he was the police. Then waited for her to confirm it with a 911 call.
by 03Lightningrocks
Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:49 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

This happened so long ago, I had almost forgotten about it. Just now going to trial? Wow... that is a pretty long wait. Should be interesting to see how it shakes out in the end.
by 03Lightningrocks
Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:02 am
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

carlson1 wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:52 am I have never heard of the Texas Rangers declining to investigate a shooting involving an officer. The Chief in Ft. Worth said that the Texas Rangers declined to investigate. Does anyone have a thought to why that is or has anyone ever heard them declining to investigate before?
The only reason I can think of is if it has become an open and shut case. Maybe the Ft Worth department is handing this in such a way that the Texas Rangers see no need to get involved at this point. I would be willing to bet that there have been other cases that they saw no need to investigate.
by 03Lightningrocks
Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:13 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

rtschl wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2019 3:37 pm According to the linked article below it was not dispatched as a wellness call but as an open structure. I read about this on Twitter today from Amy Swearer, a Senior Legal Policy Analyst at Heritage Foundation. She correctly points out that he still violated department policies on use of force and de-escalation. But this does seem to explain why the two officers approached the way they did. I'm sure that will also play in the defense strategy against the charge of murder.

Fort Worth Interim Police Chief Ed Kraus told reporters on Tuesday that Dean was responding to an “open structure call” when he opened fire on Atatiana Jefferson and killed her.

An “open structure” or “open door call” is much different than a wellness check, Michael “Britt” London, president of the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association, told the outlet.

With an “open structure” call, officers are typically on higher alert, as reports could vary from a door accidentally being left unlocked to something more serious like a burglary.


https://people.com/crime/officer-shot-a ... rm=7371483


Not to hijack the thread, but if you don't know who Amy Swearer is, you need to see her testimony before the House Judiciary Committee at the hearing on "Protecting America from Assault Weapons". She decimated the gun grabbers which you can see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9AfhdKLNDA
That does at least explain why they responded the way they did. There is still no good reason for the officer to shoot the woman through her window before she even had a chance to know it was cops and not some back yard thugs. invading her home.
by 03Lightningrocks
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:50 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

Soccerdad1995 wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:39 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:23 pm
philip964 wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:45 pm There is a quote "to a hammer everything is a nail".

I hope it is repeated over and over to the police cadets that everyone is not a bad guy. Protect and Serve.

I am an armchair quarterback now, but if your are trying to sneak into the backyard so that when someone does announce "Police" at the front door, you can catch the bad guy leaving from a rear entrance, why do you have your flashlight on and not ducking under windows.

It seems shining your flashlight into a window, while standing in the middle of a bedroom window, at 2:30 in the morning, is a good way to get shot by a bad guy or a homeowner.

RIP great Auntie.
If that were going down in my back yard I would go full blown tactical inside my home. I would arm myself with my 12 gage. I would avoid all windows and doors while remaining low to the ground and stay concealed as possible. It would never enter my mid that a cop was in my yard. Maybe it would now but before now it wouldn't have.
This would trigger an emergency response for me.

My bedroom curtains are closed at night, but I can see a flashlight through them if someone is poking around my yard. In this case, I might also be woken up by my dog going nuts. I would get the long gun from my bedside safe, give my wife the shotgun, and possibly also the revolver, and instruct her to get to the closet and call 911 while I moved to the living room, staying behind cover. We have full length windows in the living room, and if I saw a guy creeping around that corner with a gun in his hand, things might well end with one of us shot. It's about a 25 yard shot, and I'm not likely to miss with an AR that has a 4X ACOG sitting on it.

I might not be able to choose inaction at that point since my dog would likely be attacking the perp (doggie door to the backyard), and my son could also wander into harms way if he woke up. He has to traverse a catwalk that is in full view of those windows in order to get to the stairs from his room, and his first instinct would be to get to his mom, I believe.
Soccerdad1995, the picture you draw is downright frightening. Jesus Jesepe! I am single with my kids all grown so I have the luxury of some hesitation. But when you insert the cast of characters such as in your post, there is little to no room for taking chances. When my kids were younger and still at home, I did not play at all. The desire to protect my loved ones came first. Police should not be lurking around in back yards and shining lights through windows. That crap has to stop!
by 03Lightningrocks
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:45 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

WTR wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:38 pm :iagree:

I would also call the Police. We have had several occasions when people have impersonated the Police. I need to see an official car with lights flashing.
That could lead into a whole nuther conversation but I have thought this same thing. "Heck, I have broke no laws, why would the cops be at my house"? Bad guys have been known to impersonate cops.
by 03Lightningrocks
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:23 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

philip964 wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:45 pm There is a quote "to a hammer everything is a nail".

I hope it is repeated over and over to the police cadets that everyone is not a bad guy. Protect and Serve.

I am an armchair quarterback now, but if your are trying to sneak into the backyard so that when someone does announce "Police" at the front door, you can catch the bad guy leaving from a rear entrance, why do you have your flashlight on and not ducking under windows.

It seems shining your flashlight into a window, while standing in the middle of a bedroom window, at 2:30 in the morning, is a good way to get shot by a bad guy or a homeowner.

RIP great Auntie.
If that were going down in my back yard I would go full blown tactical inside my home. I would arm myself with my 12 gage. I would avoid all windows and doors while remaining low to the ground and stay concealed as possible. It would never enter my mid that a cop was in my yard. Maybe it would now but before now it wouldn't have.
by 03Lightningrocks
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:17 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

Soccerdad1995 wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:36 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:27 pm I for one am more interested in the penalty for the Ft Worth police department. They are just as guilty as he is. This was a dad gummed wellness check! What the heck is with the way they approached the call? That easily could have been any one of us. I know I am not the only one who might have a gun in his hand in my own darned home!
:iagree:

Whoever made the decision to respond in this manner bears at least some responsibility for the ultimate outcome. I think there is at least one more person who needs to be criminally charged in this case.
From some of my posts it is pretty obvious I am impatient with race baiting but to be honest, I have to wonder if the response has to do with it being a lower income mainly black neighborhood. I would love to know if it is department policy to respond to ALL wellness checks in tactical combat fashion.
by 03Lightningrocks
Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:27 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

I for one am more interested in the penalty for the Ft Worth police department. They are just as guilty as he is. This was a dad gummed wellness check! What the heck is with the way they approached the call? That easily could have been any one of us. I know I am not the only one who might have a gun in his hand in my own darned home!
by 03Lightningrocks
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:52 pm
Forum: Off-Topic
Topic: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer
Replies: 119
Views: 38885

Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

Frankie wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:28 pm That was fast!

Fort Worth police officer jailed on murder charge after resigning in shooting that killed woman in home

https://www.foxnews.com/us/fort-worth-p ... estigation
It is all well and good that the officer is facing charges and has been disciplined(fired). But the Ft. Worth Police department as a whole needs to be under investigation. It is apparently obvious that they call a swat style commando raid a ":wellness check". That is actually what is responsible for this womans death. I hope they are not allowed to brush the blame off on an officer performing under their direction. A wellness check has always been and should always be, a knock on the door and ask if you are OK thing!

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