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RPB wrote:

CompVest wrote:Great ending to a long story! It is good to hear of a company taking care of its customer so well.

TRUE. Hobie learned that in the Kayak business, by taking better care of customers than they even "had to"
Hopefully, Diamondback will keep that customer care model and continue to grow and prosper too. .... I just wish some other businesses learned to take care of customers.

Supposedly Kel-Tec used to have such good service when they were new, but now a days I think they have so many defective products they have become to overwhelmed to provide good customer care. (This is my personal opinion and that of others I've spoken to).

I received a brand new DB380 from Diamondback yesterday. I was told that several items were out of spec on my model so they just sent me a brand new one. Took it to the range with quite a bit of well earned skepticism, however I was able to put 250 totally flawless rounds through it. Not one single failure of any kind.

I'm still not totally sure about this gun due to the issues with my 1st one, but that's a whole lot better than my 1st one ever did. For now I'm still going to rely upon the Kahr P380 I purchased. If I do decide to sell it, at least I feel good about it's reliability for the next owner.

Actually nothing! If anything were in complete agreement. I just want to be clear that I have never called or implied that the DB, at least not mine for sure is a good gun. If anything the opposite. I do think it has some very nice features, and imo shoots much nicer than its current competition, when it shoots that is. I also think that it could, in the long term have the "possibility" of being a better gun due to its apparent design. This thread has simply gone in to many directions in my opinion, but like I said I'll be happy to keep everyone updated. Again we are in total agreement. If it doesn't go BANG every time it is NOT a self defense weapon, and I clearly communicated that with Diamondback.

As a side note and just to be clear, I'm not a fan of revolvers but Autos Vs. Revolvers might be a worthy topic of discussion stemming from all of this reliability talk.

Embalmo wrote:Guys,

It would not surprise me if the future reviews for the DB .380 put in on a higher reliability shelf than the LCP. Clark Howard often says that you can read a favorable consumer report on Hyundais based on a study of 1,000,000 cars, but if your neighbor has a lemon, you'll never buy one.

"This will be it's third trip to Ruger.I have decided this gun is not fit for carry, defense, or anything for that matter. It is far too unreliable to trust to your life. " This is DEAD ON! Only a fool would trust his life to an unreliable LCP like this; I do not have blind faith in ANY brand of firearm.

The problem I have is if I were an absolute beginner, this thread would make me believe that it's OK for auto handguns to consistently jam, and break. And the .380 round is inherently jam prone because it isn't powerful enough to push the slide back to cycle its operation, as a member in this feed wrote, "...as I believe what was happening is that the low pressure of the .380 was not quite enough to fully send the slide backwards." My bottom line is: Auto handguns, specifically .380s are very reliable, and don't trust your life to an unreliable gun, no matter how pretty it is, how much money you've spent on it, or what name brand it is; It's all about "bang bang", or "click click". This thread may single handedly turn the whole world off auto handguns.

Embalmo

I have to say that this one, out of all of the posts on this topic confused me the most and I am truly just looking for clarification.

1st you say that it wouldn't' surprise you if the Diamondback ended up being more reliable as a whole than the LCP which you yourself carry. Then you take a quote from somewhere stating that an LCP is taking it's 3rd trip back to Ruger. And thirdly you state that .380 autos are very reliable.

My response to this is that your probably right on the 1st statement, a new gun company with what appears to be a totally new design is bringing to market a firearm that may very well have much higher overall and long-term reliability than either KT or Ruger, both of which are known to be, as a group, plagued with issues. Everyone who's ever seen an LCP knows that Ruger clearly copied the KT design and apparently did little or nothing to improve upon it. Not to say that your LCP is not perfect in every way, it may very well be, and I believe what you say, but as a former owner of 2 of them I can tell you that my experience does not match up with yours, and I have also been the oh so pleased owner of a total Lemon KT, of which KT was neither quick to help remedy the situation, actually fix the gun, or treat me a decent human being.

I don't know where your quote about an LCP going back to Ruger three times came from but it is just one of literally hundreds of similar stories regarding the model overall.

As for the reliability of .380s, especially mouse guns, I think that clearly there are many issues surrounding the reliability of the early market entrants in the lightweight category. I don't believe that the heavier all metal mouse .380s have these issues, at least not that I have read. I am again very happy that you found one that works and that you are happy with, a good friend of mine has one as well. I believe that as a class of guns (lightweight polymer pocket .380's) that all potential buyers should be wary of them in general. These are shrunken down to a point where the tolerances of production must be so tight that I don't think many producers can consistently make them to the exacting specifications required. This may turn out to be that case with Diamondback, but I would not make that judgment based solely upon this one reviewers experiences.

Again and for the last time, I will state that I took it upon myself to try out a new to market gun. And while I have very honestly and openly shared with all of you my experience, I believe that you will find many more very positive reviews of the DB380 out there as well. I and Diamondback themselves readily admit that I just plain got a bad one. The good news is that they have been totally on top of it and proactive in making me as a buyer whole.
I give them major kudos for 1. breaking the mold of the polymer pocket .380, 2. standing behind what they are producing, and 3. being honest and honorable with their customers.

I have not ever and will not recommend the purchase of this gun nor any gun (Caveat emptor), but simply tell the truth about my experiences. That's it for me. I will update when I get the DB back and how it goes from there. I hope to have good news for everyone but if not I will again share it with you. Regardless of the cost of ammo, it is a darn fun little gun to shoot.

I still believe this is a case of a one off Lemon. It happens with all brands and types of products as has been stated here before. I just got off the phone with Diamondback and they said that several items are off spec on my S/N (only the 312th produced) and they are simply building me a new gun and shipping it to me tomorrow. Again, I'm not really apt to spend hundreds of dollars re testing, especially since I got my Kahr and really like it, but I think I'll be holding on to it for a while and see how it does over time. I have read a lot of very positive posts on the DB on other forums and reviews and do tend to think that I just happened to receive a bad one.

RPB, I certainly hope that yours runs well for you when you finally get the chance to test her out.

for customer service!

RPB wrote:I think it's a bit early to say "design" flaw, but perhaps a materials defect.
A "design" flaw would be more like the first Generation extractors on Kel-tec P3AT maybe, or LCPs accidently discharging, or Toyota designing gas pedals too close to the floormats. A materials defect would be like using a poor grade of steel or steel that wasn't tempered properly so the trigger bar gets brittle maybe.
I'll keep mine, even if it is determined that that 1 part, trigger bar, needs replacing every so many rounds, like the $1,000 Rohrbach Spring replacement after every few boxes of ammo/every 250 rounds etc.

Well Put!

And as distrustful as I may be about certain things or people, I trusted this guy and do believe that the trigger bar is a secondary issue with this particular gun, something else is out of spec on it. That is not to say that I trust that they will fix it properly or that it will be a good gun long term, just that the guy at DB was being honest and really wanted to figure it out.

Here we go again.
Apparently my Diamondback misses it's creators so much that it can't stand to be outside of Florida for more than a couple of days.

After a good run with her I had her at the range last Tuesday evening, loaded her up, 1st round went BANG and then on the next round the trigger keeps lightly clicking, not a light strike as I thought it might be, but simply the trigger is not actuating the striker/firing mechanism. Mind you this is a DAO and the trigger should go limp after a misfire, but it keeps clicking this little light click. I dropped the mag, cleared the chamber and tried like crazy to field strip it. Took me about 5 minutes of tinkering to get it open. I inspected it, everything looked fine so I cleaned it, oiled it and re-assembled it. And guess what, 1st round BANG and then more clicking. Took it apart again, had my gunsmith take a look and he said it looked OK so, one last try and 1st round BANG and the darn trigger bar snapped again, exactly like the week before.

Sent an email to DB Tuesday night and spoke with them 1st thing Wednesday morning. Of course they sent me another overnight label for return, but I spoke with their armorer briefly and he swore up and down to me that mine is the only DB in which the trigger bar has snapped and that clearly something else is going on...

I was told the gun would be basically stripped, measured for tolerances and re-built or I would be provided with a new DB entirely. I thanked him politely and began my search for a new pocket gun...

I'm sure there are those of you out there who can feel my pain/frustration at this point. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do when I get the DB back, I'm not really in the mood to feed it anymore, but I also love the look and feel of this gun (feel free to joke all you Glock haters ).

I don't really know what to tell anyone about the Diamondback other than to continue to be honest about what is going on with my particular gun, so that's that.

You can find my other thread on the Kahr P380 here on the board, I was able to track one down and feel really good about it.

Thank you Havoc!

Embalmo,
I certainly have no interest in arguing with you, but 1st and foremost I do not see how my finances concern you at all. Secondly, my intention here has been nothing more than to try to accurately inform the group of my experience with this pistol. I have provided nothing but honest evaluation and my own humble opinions regarding the Diamondback. I have come to the conclusion that for myself this is quality and reliable firearm and leave it to anyone else in the group to make their own decisions regarding it. If you have a disagreement as to how I have represented myself or the Diamondback please post that, but please keep any personal thoughts regarding me out of the forum.

Adam

Took DB back to the range on Sunday to make sure things were still OK. Cleaned her up real good and oiled her very well. 200 more flawless rounds, I really love this little piece now. So much so that elsie pea is now gone (traded for ammo).
I have to say I really am still surprised with how good the trigger on this gun is and how good the accuracy is as well.
Here are a few pics of her so you can get a good idea of some of the detail.

You're right. Unfortunately due to initial inconsistencies I have now spent more on ammo than on the gun. Believe me, I wish I had some super secret discount ammo dealer.

OK, Back on topic again.
So in under 48 hours I had my DB380 back in hand with an extra Magazine courtesy of Diamondback. I had the afternoon off and spent it at the range. 1st 100 rounds, I was still encountering the occasional FTE/FTF. I decided to smooth out her insides just like I had to do with Elsie Pea. I very lightly sanded and polished the feed ramp and oiled the guide rod and spring as I believe what was happening is that the low pressure of the .380 was not quite enough to fully send the slide backwards.

Now were having fun... 300+ rounds of various ammo fed flawlessly

Accuracy was on par with my LCP, however I think a little better for me as I like the trigger better, it just feels smoother to me, and I prefer the grip angle as well.
As I stated before, I don't even bother shooting these little guns past 5 yards, I believe that I would be extremely unlikely to fire this gun in self defense at anything past 15 feet. That being said at 5 yards I was able to put 5 of 7 shots within a 3" target repeatedly.

I had trigger pulls tested on both of my guns and a KT at the range, as follows: KT ~8lb., LCP ~6.5lb., DB ~5.5lb.

Now the Diamondback is where I need it to be to feel comfortable carrying her.

Not quite sure how to put this, but I won't recommend this gun per-se, just because it is new and there are only several hundred in existence, but my opinion and experience with the gun and the company is very positive, for what it's worth.

Any questions feel free to ask, but please let's keep the caliber debate to a different topic.

While certainly not ideal, a .380 in your pocket is far more effective than no gun at all. Also, with today's advancements in self defense ammo, it may be more effective than many might think, especially when combined with proper shot placement. Of course when I'm able I carry larger sure, but my and many other peoples daily live and activities are not conducive to strapping on a holster to carry something bigger. Don't forget also that most self defense encounters with a gun are put to an end simply by brandishing a weapon with no shots fired.

Wow, thanks for the story. I tend to be a little hasty sometimes and in my rush to WANT this gun to be great I got a little overzealous. I typically never carry a gun until I have had a minimum of 250 flawless rounds through it. I was only at 150 when I decided this one was ok, and I'd run another 100 or so in a couple days. Good thing I didn't need it 90 rounds later...

I'll be holding onto elsie pea for a bit longer, while she was NOT reliable when I got her, a good gentle sanding and polishing of the feed ramp took care of all worries, she will shoot anything and I do trust her with my life.