TexasCHLforum.com

johnferg69 wrote:So, basicly I just wasted time and money for me and my wife to attend a CHL class just to leave it locked in the car most of the time??

You did not.

The only places that I go where I can't legally carry are courthouses, polling places, and the University of Texas Medical Branch. (I choose not to go to bars, professional sporting events, etc., simply because I have no wish to do so.)

These hypothetical places where you can't carry for fear of a cop with X-ray eyes are bogeymen.

- Jim

Welcome to the forum, johnferg69 and Master Chef.

johnferg69 wrote:As per the Instructor, ANY sign posted stating no firearms, handguns or weapons must be adhered too. Non-compliant 30.06 signs, the gun-buster sign, etc. "Even if the the sign is wrote in crayon, don't risk it!".

Example; the question was asked about being able to go to the baggage claim at DFW and Love Field airports. These areas are outside the secured area, between the metal detector/check point and the entrance doors. Someone in the class said they now have sign posted "No Firearms" in the roadway between the parking and the buildings....
Has the CHL restrictions really become this restrictive?

No.

The instructor is incorrect with respect to committing criminal trespass by carrying a concealed handgun with a CHL.

Unfortunately, a lawyer at DPS issued an opinion recently that backs him up. This topic has been discussed extensively in this forum: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31246" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DFW has been problem for years. The management of the airport thinks they can prohibit carry by CHL holders. They are wrong. They know it. No one is ever arrested there for carrying legally.

They also seem to have forgotten that it is perfectly legal to bring an unloaded, cased firearm to baggage check-in and check it with TSA.

The same is true of the management of Houston Intercontinental (IAH).

We really need to know the law and exercise our rights fearlessly. Otherwise stick to martial arts and pepper spray.

- Jim

rmoraes wrote:Are the Presidential Libraries in TX "off-limits' to CHL's?

As far as I know, all presidential libraries are run by private foundations. They would not be off-limits unless they post 30.06 signs.

However, some are on university property. IANAL, YMMV, etc.

- Jim

Gearheart wrote:How about an apartment at the edge of a university campus, owned by the university, but only used as living space for students?

Gray area, as long as the phrase "physical premises of a school or educational institution" in PC 46.03 is not defined by statute or case law.

Premises is defined as a building or portion of a building in PC 46.035, but does that mean classroom buildings, administration buildings, maintenance sheds, freestanding public bathrooms, or what?

I'll bet the best lunch in town that if you ask the university police (assuming the university has a force), they will say that all campus buildings are off-limits. A judge may disagree.

Also, there is undoubtedly a no-weapons clause in the housing agreement that gives the university the power to evict and expel the resident.

Jim Lockey wrote:I appreciate your information but I have become a little bit uneasy with some of the poeple here. Some really like to push the envelope when carryiing their weapon.... The Wally walk and things like this.

Could you explain your concern in a little more detail?

It's perfectly legal to carry at Wal-Mart, and they are a lot more tolerant of strange characters and odd behavior than other retail establishments.

- Jim

Abraham wrote:If I understand you correctly, you're saying the bogus signs will be enforced as if they were properly lawful and you as the lawfully abiding CHL holder will be punished with arrest, detention and a jury trial if you don't observe them?

By "costly to beat the rap" when lawfully carrying, are you saying that the time and money required to exonerate you (though innocent of breaking any law) will be so harsh you may as well obey a bogus sign?

That is what I am saying.

I can't prove it will happen in any particular case; but when the CHL law went into effect, the City of Galveston passed an ordinance prohibiting weapons on all city property except streets and sidewalks; and they posted signs on city buildings. Those signs are still there. The entire city council, administration, and police chief have turned over since then; but I am not betting that they won't enforce that ordinance if they catch someone carrying in City Hall.

If they enforce the city ordinance and get a conviction, it's a class C misdemeanor with up to a $500 fine. They could ask the DA's office to prosecute the case under 30.06. I don't know if the DA would do that or not.

Abraham wrote:If the government, as represented by the police, in effect break the law with their enforcement of bogus signs, what does that say?

The old saying goes, you can't fight City Hall.

The reality is that you can fight City Hall, but it takes a lot of time and energy and usually money. I could write letters to city and police officials and bring up the issue at a City Council meeting. I would probably be dismissed as a "gun nut."

I could hire a lawyer to file a motion to get an injuction, and the judge would probably issue one. That happened in Houston, and the city was forced to comply with state law.

I hang my head in shame at not having done at least the letter-writing, but when you rock the boat around here, you may find yourself in the water.

BTW, you may recall forum member Jhutto, who reported being arrested for carrying in a DPS office. He stopped posting, no doubt on the advice of an attorney.

- Jim

If the place you went to pay your water bill was a public facility (city hall or something similar), it cannot generally be posted even with a 30.06 sign.

The only legitimate 30.06 posting of a government facility is the place where a government meeting is being held. That implies that it can be posted only at the time the meeting is being held. However, some towns have taken advantage of that provision to post permanently.

A city or county building may also be off-limits because it contains a courtroom.

These bogus postings are common. The bottom line is that the police often say that they will enforce them, and it would be costly to beat the rap if you were arrested.

- Jim

Banks follow the same rules as other private property. They must be 30.06 posted.

- Jim

I'm saying that this part of the law does not exempt streets and sidewalks per PC 46.035. I think it is intended to ban displays of arms withing 1,000 feet of the place of execution.

- Jim

This part of the law is pretty clear. It says "within 1,000 feet" and does not refer to the "premises" definition of 46.035. It says "firearm," so long arms and handguns are prohibited. It also requires "notice." What form must that take? A sign at the site? A notice in the newspaper? I don't know that it has ever been defined or tested.

As a general principle of law, your home is your castle, and a law like this could not be used to prohibit having a weapon in your home. While it technically prohibits CHL holders from carrying within that 1,000-ft. radius, someone going about his business offers no cause to be stopped or searched.

- Jim

Public and private colleges and university buildings and sponsored activities are off-limits unless you have permission or are using a weapon in a school-sponsored activity. (Some schools have rifle, pistol, and shotgun teams.)

- Jim

CoffeeAddict wrote:You can carry on public transportation (Metro), correct?

Correct. I don't recall the details, but they tried to ban CHLs and had to give up.

- Jim