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by Liberty
Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:43 am
Forum: Instructors' Corner
Topic: Minimum Caliber for Instructor Proficiency
Replies: 22
Views: 2748

Re: Minimum Caliber for Instructor Proficiency

skeathley wrote:The whole caliber thing needs to be thought through again. While my discussion was about SSC (not LTC), it should be the same. I was told by DPS that students could technically use .22, but instructors taking that certification could only use .32 or above. The change in state law only applies to students, while DPS can set policies for instructors. I am not fond of letting people get an LTC on a .22, but I can live with it. My problems are

1. If the term Firearms Instructor is to have any meaning, we should be required to use 9mm or above to qualify, and shoot 240, not 225. Some of my new students can shoot 225.
I assume the quality of instruction has very little to do with the marksmanship of the instructor. We must keep in mind that the instructors' job at an LTC class is not to teach or demonstrate marksmanship. One of the reasons I don't take proficiency test or the scores seriously is that I believe very few people take the qualifications with the actual gun they intend to EDC. I know personally I can reliably max the test with my full sized 9mm handguns, although I am also sure I could pass with my 9mm 3" barrel, I would not likely score a 250. I believe that the proficiency test does have a good purpose, that giving the instructors observation of safe gun handling.
skeathley wrote: 2. Students taking SSC are training for an active shooter event. The bad guy won't be carrying a .22, so school staff should not. But if they got their LTC on a .22, then the state has backed themselves into a corner, and can't argue for a higher standard.

Imagine a crazy guy in a school setting; he has an AR-15, a 9mm, a 1911 .45, 5 loaded AR mags, and 10 loaded pistol mags. The only person in the school with a gun has a Beretta Bobcat .22. Really? He may as well have a Nerf gun.

It is very unlikely a typical LTC person would face this situation, but school shooters almost always come prepared for war.

Terrorism is slowly coming to America. Do you think they have not studied the case of Adam Lanza?

:banghead:
Anyone challenging a terrorist is most likely going to be outgunned. That doesn't mean he doesn't have a chance.

At any rate I don't have a dog in this race, I am not an instructor, Haven't had to qualify in years, and am unlikely to in the future. All my handguns are 9mm.
by Liberty
Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:05 pm
Forum: Instructors' Corner
Topic: Minimum Caliber for Instructor Proficiency
Replies: 22
Views: 2748

Re: Minimum Caliber for Instructor Proficiency

skeathley wrote:I already went through this with DPS. That is a typo. Students can shoot .22, but instructors have to shoot at least .32. They had a lot of trouble getting a determination on that, so I would err on the side of caution and shoot 9mm or above and .38. There could not be a complaint about that.

:rules:
:iagree: This makes more sense. I couldn't understand why they would change it. If anything I would have that that DPS would ease the standards or eliminate alltogether for renewals. Drawing the line at .38 made no sense at all and would have technically eliminated 9mm
by Liberty
Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:17 am
Forum: Instructors' Corner
Topic: Minimum Caliber for Instructor Proficiency
Replies: 22
Views: 2748

Re: Minimum Caliber for Instructor Proficiency

jmorris wrote:
Liberty wrote:
jmorris wrote:There were a couple people in my class that thought they wouldn't be able to shoot their 9s because 9mm is actually 0.354".
Just curious, cause I don't ever plan on being an instructor, but ...
If they explicitly declare that it must be .38 Caliber or above, why is it that 9mm is actually allowed? Is there an exception written elsewhere in the rules?
I think because they are using .38 as a size class, not as a strict limit. For example, the caption for this photo was "Examples of 9mm/.38 cartridges".
Kewl chart !! 9mm still smaller than .38 a The DPS and all the instructors I know are real sticklers for rules. One foot over a stop line or 2 miles over the speed limit is no excuse. One instructor wouldn't let a guy qualify with his lever action pistol even though it met all the legal specifications , and yet instructors routinely qualify on a questionable caliber. I'm sure that the folks at DPS don't mind, I don't understand why the move from .32 cal though. it just makes more sense. Less ambiguity. The whole idea of instructor qualifying to me is silly anyway. Marksmanship has little to do with instructor skills knowledge of Texas laws, Safety abilities or any other important instructor skills. These days most people won't bother qualifying with the gun that they actually carry every day. If it weren't so much fun, I think most instructors would complain about the silliness of it all.

I am just observing and taking notes, I don't really care because it doesn't affect me. I'm not an instructor and have no desire to be one.
by Liberty
Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:59 pm
Forum: Instructors' Corner
Topic: Minimum Caliber for Instructor Proficiency
Replies: 22
Views: 2748

Re: Minimum Caliber for Instructor Proficiency

jmorris wrote:There were a couple people in my class that thought they wouldn't be able to shoot their 9s because 9mm is actually 0.354".
Just curious, cause I don't ever plan on being an instructor, but ...
If they explicitly declare that it must be .38 Caliber or above, why is it that 9mm is actually allowed? Is there an exception written elsewhere in the rules?

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