Search found 14 matches

by CJD
Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:16 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

Like I said, I think you would have to warn them not to come closer and then not listen before you might be able to show the holster as a deterrent.
by CJD
Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:23 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

Dave2 wrote::
The general guideline that I personally use is if it's not legal to shoot them, it's not legal to show them.
That is the case legally, but once 299 goes into effect we have a little more leeway. Not sure if you knew that already. So it seems he's asking his scenario under the rule of the new law, once in effect.
by CJD
Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:42 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

I'd agree you were breaking the law. Perhaps, at that distance, you could warn them not to come any closer. If they kept coming closer, PERHAPS you could then be justified in threat of force because you could reasonably believe they were attempting robbery. You could probably use the argument you believed they were attempting robbery in your scenario, but you would probably have a harder time fighting that one in court. All of this is just my opinion.
by CJD
Mon May 13, 2013 2:03 am
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

hillfighter wrote:
Beiruty wrote:
polekitty wrote:How about this scenario, just like Rrash, except you’re on a motorcycle and you go back to the parking lot to lock your weapon in your saddle bag and someone sees you removing it from your holster. Is that intentional or display? :confused5
From to your car motorcycle you can open carry and you do not a CHL
On somebody else's property?
I don't believe that's the case. That seems like it would be intentional, but not display. Good example!
by CJD
Sun May 12, 2013 1:57 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

So maybe, bottom of gun is visible under shirt= ok because not displayed, whereas open holster= displayed.
by CJD
Sat May 11, 2013 5:41 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

I wish an owb holster openly carried wouldn't count as "displaying" but instead would be intentionally failing to conceal.
by CJD
Fri May 10, 2013 3:53 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

Keith B wrote: As said before, I really don't care that the failure to conceal was changed to display; my big HOORAH moment is the change in adding the word 'force' to the statute. :thumbs2:
Absolutely, that was my main purpose for support of this bill!!
by CJD
Fri May 10, 2013 3:46 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

Keith B wrote:
CJD wrote:Ok I believe you. Could you give me an example of when you would be intentionally failing to conceal, but not displayin? What would owb on hip be?
Take out 'intentionally'. I believe that will help.

A person who 'fails to conceal' their hand gun or 'fails to conceal' their identity gets discovered that they are carrying or someone figures out who they are. In the case of handog, he exposed his pistol and was discovered, so the cops took him to jail because he 'failed to conceal' his gun. When the case was reviewed, the DA determines the whole statute must apply, it was not intentional, so no law was broken and charges are dropped.

Now, with the word change, if you put something on 'display', your intent was to show that item to others. Think of a display at a store or at an art gallery; you want people to see it. If you accidentally reveal your handgun, you are not displaying it. If you take it out of the holster and show it to someone,then you ARE displaying it because you want the other person to see it.

Maybe that clarifies it?
Not really, because intentional is what makes the language confusing, without it it is no longer confusing. If you intentionally fail to conceal, which means you purposefully do not hide it, how is your intention NOT for others to see it?

I understand accidental exposure, but if you purposefully leave it exposed, then you obviously do not care whether or not people see it. So, that being said, could the difference in the language really be the difference between "not caring" if people see and "wanting" people to see? If so, how would you prove it one way or the other?
by CJD
Fri May 10, 2013 3:05 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

JKTex wrote:
CJD wrote:
JKTex wrote:
CJD wrote:Yeah. It seems to me the display wording won't change much as opposed to just adding "intentional", but the "public place" could have a pretty good effect.
No, the change is significant. It is "intentionally display" vs. "intentionally fail to conceal". I'm not sure how some aren't seeing how different that is. It's big.
I'm just thinking if you intentionally fail to conceal, you might as well be displaying as you know full well what you are doing and that your piece is visible.
If it were, there would be no difference in the words used. There is however, and the words are a game changer.
Ok I believe you. Could you give me an example of when you would be intentionally failing to conceal, but not displayin? What would owb on hip be?
by CJD
Fri May 10, 2013 12:44 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

JKTex wrote:
CJD wrote:Yeah. It seems to me the display wording won't change much as opposed to just adding "intentional", but the "public place" could have a pretty good effect.
No, the change is significant. It is "intentionally display" vs. "intentionally fail to conceal". I'm not sure how some aren't seeing how different that is. It's big.
I'm just thinking if you intentionally fail to conceal, you might as well be displaying as you know full well what you are doing and that your piece is visible.
by CJD
Fri May 10, 2013 12:40 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

Yeah. It seems to me the display wording won't change much as opposed to just adding "intentional", but the "public place" could have a pretty good effect.
by CJD
Fri May 10, 2013 11:22 am
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

Possibly, but to me, it seems that if you are intentionally not concealing, then you are purposefully showing it, which seems like display to me. If you intentionally do not conceal, your intent is for it to be visible.
I understand failing to conceal, my problem is with the word intentionally.
by CJD
Fri May 10, 2013 10:17 am
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

Re: SB299 to Governor

TrueFlog wrote:That's an interesting perspective. Are there any other parts of the code that deal with failure to conceal, intentional display, etc.? Keep in mind that failure to conceal (even if intentional) if only a crime if the Penal Code says it is. Is there any part of the code that makes it a crime to fail to conceal in a non-public place? Suppose I were to OC at a friend's house - what statue (if any) would i be violating? What section of the PC could I be charged with breaking?
It seems there is not one. I'm curious, what is the difference between intentionally "failing to conceal" and displaying? They seem the same to me, unless they are defined specifically in the penal code.
by CJD
Thu May 09, 2013 6:36 pm
Forum: 2013 Texas Legislative Session
Topic: SB299 to Governor
Replies: 61
Views: 10884

SB299 to Governor

Can anyone clarify what the language may allow? "Displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place.
Does this possibly allow open carry unless in a "public place"? For instance, like someone had referenced before, "BBQ guns at private parties."

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