TexasCHLforum.com

In this article http://www.lvrj.com/news/witness-list-d ... 48369.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The lawyer mentions near the end of the article that he has 15 witness some of whom are doctors or lawyers as close as five feet away who say Erik was not a threat and that he did not have time to react to any of the orders before he was shot. He also said that Erik was shot seven times including five times in the back while he was on the ground

This obviously is from Erik's attorney and he is not under oath, but this is terrible if it is true.

I found that the army forums have picked it up this story as this is one of their own, and they are not happy campers either.

I would say the delays and the forensic examination of the video (which apparently there are lots of cameras nearby) do not bode well for Costco and the police officers involved.

Breaking news on the Costco shooting

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/24414959/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The inquest which was going to be in September (which is a long way away) has now been indefinitely postponed.

Geez.

Some in Nevada have the view that the photoshopping of the video is going to take a lot longer than originally planned.

Uh oh looks like this sort of happens a lot in Las Vegas and they have a system for sweeping it under the carpet

http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/a-few-quest ... ml?ref=929" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

An editorial well worth the read.

Can you charge a 911 caller with murder?

03Lightningrocks wrote: to throw sand over their poo.

excellent metaphor by the way.

There had been some confusion at least in my mind as to whether this particular Costco had a sign preventing concealed carry.

I asked a specific question to the members of the Nevada Shooters forum whether that was indeed the case that there was no sign preventing concealed carry.

The reply was that this member had checked that particular location and there was no sign preventing concealed carry at that store that he could find.

I joined the very nicely prepared facebook memorial page for Erik that is on line now.

There will be statements hopefully taken from all the employees. I suspect they will all support their crazy man destroying merchandise previous reports. However, did the police see and photograph all the destroyed merchandise and seize the same as evidence? One could easily see a photograph showing up in the newspaper supporting these statements. Crates of goods spilled on the floor, an aisle destroyed with merchandise scattered everywhere.

But we have not seen that photo. Why not? If it existed would n't that be so easy for the PR department of the police to give to the hungry press looking for something to hang their hat on that the police shooting was justified? After all if he was a crazy man, it becomes so easy to prove the innocence of the police department.

Or did the police find a shopping cart that had been abandoned by Eric and his girlfriend inside the store on the aisle they were on when the "bomb scare" was reported? Inside the cart were water bottles that had been removed from their boxes, so that Eric could see how they fit in a backpack. Was this found and taken into custody as evidence?

In either case a fairly simple thing to do at a crime scene. Especially if one really wanted the truth.

Or was none of this investigated, and everything "straightened up" right after the event by the employees?

Will we be left only with the employees vs the girlfriend's statements regarding the events that triggered the 911 call?

I noticed tonight in a TV preview for "Rookie Blue" that the young female rookie is presented with a BG pointing a weapon at her. She has her weapon pointed at the BG and she yells "drop the gun" but does not fire.

I think that is the general view of television police is that they will give you the opportunity to put down your weapon, and only if you fail to do that after several requests then maybe they will shoot, but probably you have to shoot first and naturally miss before they will actually ever fire.

If the digital video evidence is being properly handled the hard drive will be brought to a place like this http://www.rcfl.gov/index.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I did not see a location for Las Vegas.

An exact digital picture of the hard drive will be copied onto a specially prepared hard drive which has only zeros written on every space in the hard drive.

All of the examination will be done with the prepared hard drive so as to not corrupt the original hard drive (evidence) in any way.

You do not want to commit a crime while using a computer or cell phone.

jinzai wrote:"agonal respirations"
"ACLS"

Sounds like EMS off duty. Would make for a heck of a good witness for the plaintiff (or prosecution?) in court.

Re: my comment in an earlier post about video muddying the waters...

If you've followed the Nathaniel Sanders case here in Austin at all, it's a perfect example of how this can occur.

Totally different circumstances, mostly favoring the officers. Dashcam video showed much of the incident. However, having seen it played over and over again on local news outlets, it could be interpreted in any number of ways, depending on the narrative you get when viewing the video. I many ways, it caused a lot more speculation than revelation.

Few would disagree, this Vegas shooting is a sad, sad case. I just renewed my membership to Costco... told the wife it was a waste of $50 as we won't be shopping there in the future.

Yet, I still say from some witness accounts it seems like Scott did handle the initial situation with the Costco store employees unwisely. However, it's all "he said, she said" at this point. The complete story of the actual events won't come out in full for years.

Now, as for the issue of being asked to leave a store after an employee sees you are carrying - why argue the point at all? As a long-time business owner, if I tell someone to get out of my place of business, that's my call. The reason doesn't matter. And, having had to call the police to escort unruly patrons out of my place of business in the past, I can tell you that it really hacks a business owner or manager off when patrons think that they have the right to stay when asked to leave the premises. As a private business owner, I can revoke my invitation to your privilege to patronage at any time; it's my prerogative.

Your right to carry does not include a right to remain in a privately owned place of business after the owner or their agent (employee, manager) requests that you leave the premises. And, if you're asked to leave and you refuse, you should expect for law enforcement to be called by the owner or employees.

Apparently, Scott was asked to leave at some point, and he didn't. That was the initial decision that ultimately ended in tragedy, that could have easily been avoided by merely complying with the wishes of the Costco staff.

While we may not like it that people don't want us carrying on their property, if they ask you to leave in my experience there's not much to be done about it.

Charles, what's your take on this issue as an attorney and CHL instructor? Any thoughts or insights as to the implied contract (if any) between business owner and patron, and how it affects CHL holders who are asked to leave because they're carrying?

I totally agree with everything you have said. Most of us did not realize that just this small error in judgment after a life time of good decisions would lead to our death, but now we know. Too bad one of us had to find this out for us to learn.

If you are asked to leave a place of business for a constitutionally protected right, you have a cause of action against that business. In this case with Costco being that they have deep pockets that would have been the preferable course of action than refusing to leave. Rosa Parks was not killed for her right to sit any where on a bus, but Eric was killed for his right to bear arms.

In the movies you always remember the line "drop the gun". Last night it was Whoopie Goldberg on TV in Jumping Jack Flash. She has a gun pointed at victims when the police burst in with guns drawn and they say the line. Naturally in the movies to advance the plot Whoopie complies and she is arrested.

Apparently we should realize the new rules are: see a gun and get shot by the police, in the link below, it is clearly a police mistake, but the lesson in both of these situations is that if the police see a gun, for any reason good bad or otherwise, you might get shot.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... e0318.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And how the mood on this story has changed, the first line of the burial story for Eric is " A 21-gun salute is scheduled for the funeral of a West Point graduate shot and killed by Las Vegas Metro police outside a Costco store"

RIP

I am consumed by this event.

This could have been me.

I have a Costco card, I usedto go there. Not anymore.

I have my plastic, I have the .380 pocket gun. I can shoot it really well now. But I still have not carried yet. I am nervous that I am not
mentally prepared to react correctly in every possible situation I might find myself.

Then this happens.

The girlfriends statements seem believable, they match the history and resume of the man that was killed.

The police statements match a different man either a criminal or a man determined to have police assisted suicide.

Clearly he wasn't either of those.

This is a former tank commander with his girlfriend at his side, he is going to draw on three policemen who already have their guns out and
pointed at him. For what purpose, he's going to magically shoot them all before they kill him, all because he opened some water bottle packages inside a Costco.

This makes no sense.

Until I see the tapes, I'm siding with the victim.

Then the police rather than saying " we have had a preliminary look at the video tapes provided by Costco and they clearly show the former West Point Graduate drawing his weapon and pointing it at the police officers backing up their reports. We will release the tapes to the public at the inquest" The police say instead "there is some problem and we are sending them for analysis" and then rather than releasing the 911 tapes which almost everyone on earth does after a incident "they are being held until the inquest", which isn't next week, but is in September, when we will have forgotten about all of this. After all even The High Road has already closed this thread.

To me Costco is in serious trouble. One of their customers has died on their property and to me they had a big hand in it happening. This wasn't a robber, a thief or someone coming trying to kill someone in one of their stores. He was only a peaceful law abiding customer, exercising his constitutional rights.

It should make us all mad. And yes no one outside of Las Vegas has reported the story, not even any of the conservative talk shows or stations.

It just another nut with a gun.

Sorry I didn't post the link, glad everyone was able to find it. (some sites dont want links they want the story posted)

Really sad story. There will be no winners here only people hurt.

Its amazing how many different directions the eye witness accounts can go.

With the officers guns already drawn and most probably aimed and pointed at our Army veteran. Why would he draw his gun?

This does not appear to be suicide by police officer, so why would he draw? Three against one, with the three all ready to fire and you with your
gun in a "zippered pouch" and your hands to your side. It makes no sense.

His gun in his waist band holster and him moving his hands down and up to raise his shirt to either show it to the officers or to put the gun on the ground seems more probable.

This would also concur with 50% of the eye witnesses. The other 50% say he had his gun out, but if that's true, when did he draw it.

I hope they will find a good video of this whole thing.

In the police officers defense, sounds like the Costco folks did a great job of getting the police pumped up that this was a crazy nut job.

Just for every one's information who does not know Summerlin in Las Vegas, it's kind of a new yuppy/retiree/money part of the city, think Woodlands.

I guess the scenes in the movies and on TV where the police ask the bad guy to drop his gun, is all fiction. If you are touching a gun you are all ready shot.

In what is being described as mad man being killed by police after refusing to put down his gun in Las Vegas, is taking a turn for the worse as it appears a CHL holder was gunned down by police who took his movements as threatening, when maybe he thought he was only complying with their instructions.

"The witnesses differed in their recollection of what one of the officers said.

Amesbury heard, "I told you to stop. Stop."

Two witnesses interviewed Sunday heard, "Drop it."

A fourth witness, interviewed Saturday, heard, "Get down," "Put it down," or "Get out of the way."

A second anonymous witness said Sunday he saw Scott pull up his shirt and turn toward the shouting officer. Then he saw the man get shot, drop to his knees and fall face-first in front of the entrance.

"There wasn't even time for someone to react," the second witness said. "The guy didn't pull a gun. There was no gun in his hand, there was no gun on the ground."

The second witness said he was interviewed by homicide detectives and gave them the same account.

The first anonymous witness also didn't see Scott make a threat.

"I certainly did not see the guy do anything with a gun that would threaten anybody," the first witness said Sunday. "It appeared to me that if he had guns on him, that they were literally in his pocket or in his waist."

The first witness also was interviewed by homicide detectives about the shooting.

Amesbury said he did not see the man get shot, but, "When I go around the corner, I see this guy laid out. I didn't see a gun." Amesbury's view of the shooting was blocked by stone pillars. He was not interviewed by police.

Before the shooting, Scott was walking with a woman that three witnesses thought was his girlfriend. They said she became distraught after the shooting. The incident also left the witnesses shaken.

It's just incredible "with all these people around that Metro would provoke something there," the second witness said. "I don't want to second-guess the police, but wouldn't it have been better to confront him out at his car?"

After the shooting, some people in the crowd panicked. An elderly woman was knocked down and cut her elbow in the chaos, the second witness said.

Only Scott was struck by gunfire .

Police said Scott had two handguns on him when he was shot. Goodman said Scott had a concealed-weapons permit.

Pusateri said his friend was a "safety freak" around guns. He said that "absolutely not in a million years" would Scott be careless with them around others.

Scott graduated from West Point, in New York, in 1994 and was stationed for a time at Fort Hood, Texas, as a tank platoon leader. In 2003, he graduated from Duke University in North Carolina with a master's degree in business administration."

Costco employees apparently freaked out when one employee saw part of a gun a CHL holder was carrying. They told him CCW were not allowed in the store although the store had no signs. They called the police and began evacuating the store calling it a bomb scare. Our victim was exiting the store with all the other customers and his girlfriend. A Costco employee pointed him out to a police officer at the door who allowed him to pass. Two officers outside already had their weapons drawn. Outside the officers stopped him. He apparently raised his shirt, either to show the gun to the officers or as they thought to reach for the gun.

He was then killed with at least 7 bullets fired by the police, in front of his girlfriend and the other shoppers.

The point here for us is that in dealing with police officers, the hands go slowly up in the air and never go anywhere else.