Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

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Daisy Cutter
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Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#1

Post by Daisy Cutter »

Report that standoff suspect owned numerous guns, based on a "license check." Huh? FFL is all I can think of.

"Investigators did a quick weapons background check and learned Pickering had licenses for numerous handguns he had collected and kept all over his Pinehurst home."

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 008383.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Scott B.
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#2

Post by Scott B. »

There's really no such mechanism in Texas since there's no pistol registry. Looks like the reporter has confabulated some facts they didn't understand into complete nonsense.

Edit: if you read that sentence again, it may be accurate, but also inaccurate.
Investigators did a quick weapons background check--and learned Pickering had licenses for numerous handguns he had collected and kept all over his Pinehurst home.
All an FFL can do is respond to a trace request from ATF, but that only occurs when an agency is tracing a specific serial number. I suppose if the investigators knew he'd done business with only one FFL they could request that the FFL search their books for what had been sold to the individual over the years. Unless they're keeping an electronic bound book that's a tall order too.

Alternately, it's possible he could have multiple sale 3310.4 paperwork on file with the local LEO, but that would only account for a few firearms and would also require that information be in a searchable db or a really interesting filing system. In Harris County, for example, the multiple file forms are saved for three years and then destroyed according to the city's paper storage reduction plan.
Last edited by Scott B. on Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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GlockDude26
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#3

Post by GlockDude26 »

you really think that those "background checks" aren't recorded and archived in a federal server???? every firearm you've ever bought from a store is kept and stored for later confiscation....just another reason they are so hard up on "universal background checks" part of the ultimate goal of universal confiscation.....anybody that tells you differently is on their team....
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#4

Post by anygunanywhere »

GlockDude26 wrote:you really think that those "background checks" aren't recorded and archived in a federal server???? every firearm you've ever bought from a store is kept and stored for later confiscation....just another reason they are so hard up on "universal background checks" part of the ultimate goal of universal confiscation.....anybody that tells you differently is on their team....
But....but...they aren't supposed to do that. How can that be?
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Scott B.
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#5

Post by Scott B. »

The only firearms information submitted on a NICS check is the weapon type (pistol, rifle, shotgun) , not serial number.

FWIW: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/g ... fact-sheet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations. Current destruction of NICS records became effective when a final rule was published by the Department of Justice in The Federal Register, outlining the following changes. Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day. If a potential purchaser is delayed or denied a firearm and successfully appeals the decision, the NICS Section cannot retain a record of the overturned appeal."
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Keith B
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#6

Post by Keith B »

I will bet the investigators stated he had a several handguns around the house, and that he was 'licensed' (aka CHL) and the ignorant reporter put the info together and formed their own statement which makes no sense in Texas.
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#7

Post by JSThane »

Scott B. wrote:The only firearms information submitted on a NICS check is the weapon type (pistol, rifle, shotgun) , not serial number.

FWIW: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/g ... fact-sheet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations. Current destruction of NICS records became effective when a final rule was published by the Department of Justice in The Federal Register, outlining the following changes. Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day. If a potential purchaser is delayed or denied a firearm and successfully appeals the decision, the NICS Section cannot retain a record of the overturned appeal."
Not to screw my tinfoil hat on too tightly, but that only works so long as the ATF never sees the 4473s, which DO bear the serial number(s). If the ATF audits the FFL - oh, I don't know, because it's "in a border state" like Texas, then they have access to those serial numbers and to the FFL's bound-book. Great place to get info for your illegal database.

You are correct, it IS illegal for them to harvest serial numbers for a database. But something being illegal isn't generally a good way to stop them doing it anyway.

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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#8

Post by ShepherdTX »

On a slightly different note: The article only mentioned a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
Texas3006.com has a listing for Tomball Regional medical center, but from the comments on there the sign may not be compliant.

I'm wondering if an additional charge of unlawful carry is going to show up and if so how that might play out as a "test case".

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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#9

Post by surprise_i'm_armed »

"Investigators did a quick weapons background check..."

They asked his wife what he had? :-)

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Purplehood
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#10

Post by Purplehood »

ShepherdTX wrote:On a slightly different note: The article only mentioned a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
Texas3006.com has a listing for Tomball Regional medical center, but from the comments on there the sign may not be compliant.

I'm wondering if an additional charge of unlawful carry is going to show up and if so how that might play out as a "test case".
It is a VA facility. I go there for my medical treatment. They do not have to have a valid 30.06 sign as they are a US Government entity.
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#11

Post by Dadtodabone »

The loss of a child, no matter what their age, is devastating for a parent. That this grieving dad obviously suffered some form mental break is apparent. Darn shame.
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Keith B
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#12

Post by Keith B »

Purplehood wrote:
ShepherdTX wrote:On a slightly different note: The article only mentioned a charge of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
Texas3006.com has a listing for Tomball Regional medical center, but from the comments on there the sign may not be compliant.

I'm wondering if an additional charge of unlawful carry is going to show up and if so how that might play out as a "test case".
It is a VA facility. I go there for my medical treatment. They do not have to have a valid 30.06 sign as they are a US Government entity.
Nope, it was Tomball Regional Medical Center. The VA outpatient clinic is a different place.
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#13

Post by The Annoyed Man »

Scott B. wrote:The only firearms information submitted on a NICS check is the weapon type (pistol, rifle, shotgun) , not serial number.

FWIW: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/g ... fact-sheet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations. Current destruction of NICS records became effective when a final rule was published by the Department of Justice in The Federal Register, outlining the following changes. Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day. If a potential purchaser is delayed or denied a firearm and successfully appeals the decision, the NICS Section cannot retain a record of the overturned appeal."
Yeah but....
The NICS is a national system that checks available records on persons who may be disqualified from receiving firearms. The FBI developed the system through a cooperative effort with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and local and state law enforcement agencies. The NICS is a computerized background check system designed to respond within 30 seconds on most background check inquiries so the FFLs receive an almost immediate response. Depending on the willingness of state governments to act as a liaison for the NICS, the FFLs contact either the FBI or a designated state Point of Contact (POC) to initiate background checks on individuals purchasing or redeeming firearms. The background check process, as performed by the FBI and by state POCs, is described below.
A 3rd grade classroom scene somewhere in America....
  • Now, children, what department is the FBI part of? That's right..... the Justice Department!

    And who is the head of the Justice Department? Right again!!! Attorney General Eric Holder! Yes Johnny, that's right. Eric Holder has been the head of the Justice department since early 2009.

    You're such good students that you can all have one cookie. ........OK, that's enough..... JOHNNY!!!! You put that second cookie back right now!!!

    Now kids, which one of you thinks that Eric Holder believes grownups shouldn't have guns? All of you? You're all doing so well today.

    Children, did you know that Eric Holder, the head of the Justice Department, has actually broken gun laws himself before? Did you know that he also broke other laws by trying to hide it? Yes, kids, he did. He called it Operation Fast and Furious, and believe it or not, he deliberately allowed criminals to buy guns! Isn't that incredible?

    And do you know what else, kids? When he got caught, he got his pal Barry to hide the evidence for him. Who's Barry? Oh, he's that guy we all call "Mr. President". Can you say "president"? I knew you could.

    And children, Barry also thinks that the government should know which Americans have guns, just in case we have to take those guns away from them. I know..... it's crazy isn't it?
Now, which one of you grownups in the room still thinks that the FBI hasn't been storing NICS requests, even though it is illegal?
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#14

Post by VMI77 »

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Scott B. wrote:The only firearms information submitted on a NICS check is the weapon type (pistol, rifle, shotgun) , not serial number.

FWIW: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/g ... fact-sheet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations. Current destruction of NICS records became effective when a final rule was published by the Department of Justice in The Federal Register, outlining the following changes. Per Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 25.9(b)(1), (2), and (3), the NICS Section must destroy all identifying information on allowed transactions prior to the start of the next NICS operational day. If a potential purchaser is delayed or denied a firearm and successfully appeals the decision, the NICS Section cannot retain a record of the overturned appeal."
Yeah but....
The NICS is a national system that checks available records on persons who may be disqualified from receiving firearms. The FBI developed the system through a cooperative effort with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) and local and state law enforcement agencies. The NICS is a computerized background check system designed to respond within 30 seconds on most background check inquiries so the FFLs receive an almost immediate response. Depending on the willingness of state governments to act as a liaison for the NICS, the FFLs contact either the FBI or a designated state Point of Contact (POC) to initiate background checks on individuals purchasing or redeeming firearms. The background check process, as performed by the FBI and by state POCs, is described below.
A 3rd grade classroom scene somewhere in America....
  • Now, children, what department is the FBI part of? That's right..... the Justice Department!

    And who is the head of the Justice Department? Right again!!! Attorney General Eric Holder! Yes Johnny, that's right. Eric Holder has been the head of the Justice department since early 2009.

    You're such good students that you can all have one cookie. ........OK, that's enough..... JOHNNY!!!! You put that second cookie back right now!!!

    Now kids, which one of you thinks that Eric Holder believes grownups shouldn't have guns? All of you? You're all doing so well today.

    Children, did you know that Eric Holder, the head of the Justice Department, has actually broken gun laws himself before? Did you know that he also broke other laws by trying to hide it? Yes, kids, he did. He called it Operation Fast and Furious, and believe it or not, he deliberately allowed criminals to buy guns! Isn't that incredible?

    And do you know what else, kids? When he got caught, he got his pal Barry to hide the evidence for him. Who's Barry? Oh, he's that guy we all call "Mr. President". Can you say "president"? I knew you could.

    And children, Barry also thinks that the government should know which Americans have guns, just in case we have to take those guns away from them. I know..... it's crazy isn't it?
Now, which one of you grownups in the room still thinks that the FBI hasn't been storing NICS requests, even though it is illegal?
Of course they are. That's one of the benefits of having a CHL....they don't call in for a background check when you buy a gun. They have to come to the store to see the 4473.
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Scott B.
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Re: Tomball hospital standoff--gun licenses?

#15

Post by Scott B. »

I'm not quite ready to be fitted for the tin foil.

Do I think the current administration would love to do it? Yes.

Have they? You'd need budget, personnel, servers, space, outside contractors, etc., just to get a project of that scale up and running -- all while knowing that it was explicitly forbidden by law. Such a database is no small task given the volume of transactions.

The various agencies have enough trouble keeping the secrets they're authorized to keep. I don't think an enterprise that comes with complementary bracelets and a trip to club fed would survive for very long. The other branches--or even subsequent administrations--would tear that conspiracy apart with a great deal of delight.
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