Church shooting Charleston SC

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jmra
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#61

Post by jmra » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:40 am

ScooterSissy wrote:
Rachel Martin wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
ShootDontTalk wrote:Something else to consider: The pastor of this church, who was killed, is a State Legislator in S.C.
And he voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead.

Chas.

That's some serious victim-blaming, sir. Isn't the murderer in fact the one to blame for the nine dead folks being dead? (I realize that may not fit your agenda, to put the blame squarely where it belongs - at the feet of a guy who used a gun to kill nine innocents in a house of worship - but try for some accuracy. You demean your cause otherwise, I feel.)
I suggest you reread the portion you quoted. He didn't blame the victims. He stated (accurately) that eight of the church members might be alive if the pastor had allowed members to carry handguns.

Our church not only allows handguns, but after the Wedgewood shooting (a few miles from our church), they encouraged members with a CHL to carry in church. A few years back, they even offered a CHL class at the church.

There is no way to stop all evil. If someone wants to kill, they will get a gun and kill. However, I suspect that someone with evil intent will find themselves stopped very quickly at our church, and others like it that allow members to defend themselves.
:iagree:
It is important to note that concealed carry in churches in SC is allowed with authorization from church leadership. This girl Pastor was opposed to church carry as evidenced by his votes as a politician.
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VMI77
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#62

Post by VMI77 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:41 am

Middle Age Russ wrote:Welcome to the Forum, Mikesurf111.

No one in their right mind loves massacres, or the loss of innocent life. No one on this Forum that I know of loves massacres or the loss of innocent life. We all care greatly for each life around us, and choose to protect those lives as we can with the tools available to us, including locks on our doors, alarms, our pet dogs, knives, guns, table lamps or whatever else may help us prevail over an imminent threat. To us, it is the height of lunacy to assume that violence will never come our way (even in a church, as this most current event illustrates) and therefore not be prepared to face it if it ever does. Each of us prays that we are never forced to face a violent attacker, but we also pray that we are prepared and able to stop the attack if it occurs. I pray also that you and your family similarly never come face-to-face with an attacker -- I fear that your un-thinking vitriol will hold them at bay but a short while.

The key is the phase no one in their right mind. I submit to you that the left and people like this Mike are not in their right mind....as evidenced by what he posted. I also think he made it pretty clear that he wants more murders like this one to occur in order to advance his agenda. Mike and his ilk WANT people to be defenseless....there is no other possible interpretation of their advocacy....not even ignorance or stupidity.
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#63

Post by EHooper02 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:41 am

I really only have one question:

If what he said wasn't wrong, why has it been deleted and you have been left to defend his statement?

Understand your board is probably under a lot of fire right now, and I'm certainly not trying to add to that. Just something to think about, I feel.

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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#64

Post by jmra » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:43 am

RonW956 wrote:I dont think anything is going to get solved by having this debate & discussion on a public forum, if anything all it does is feed the trolls...

All I know is Gun free zones dont work. They never did. The Luby's massacre in Kileen TX back in '91 is more proof than what anyone needs that gun free zones dont work... Begging for your life, doesnt work if someone is intent on killing. It's a shame that no one was carrying. I'm not even sure if they were permitted to carry but from what I've seen on the news, no. CC is not permited at the church. At least give the people a chance to fight for their god given right to life, people begging the shooter to stop obviously did'nt work. Screw that. If I walk into a business that has a 30.06 sign posted, I respectfully turn around & go elsewhere...
Church carry is allowed in SC with authorization of the church leadership. As usual the MSM either doesn't know what they are talking about or they don't care about reporting the truth.
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#65

Post by jmra » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:47 am

It's pretty funny that a new member shows up defending Mike right after Mike gets booted. Lots of trolls today or maybe just one.
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#66

Post by TVGuy » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:50 am

jmra wrote:It's pretty funny that a new member shows up defending Mike right after Mike gets booted. Lots of trolls today or maybe just one.
Considering that Google is listing over 10,000 articles related to this, I doubt it's just one.

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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#67

Post by jmra » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:52 am

TVGuy wrote:
jmra wrote:It's pretty funny that a new member shows up defending Mike right after Mike gets booted. Lots of trolls today or maybe just one.
Considering that Google is listing over 10,000 articles related to this, I doubt it's just one.
You're probably right.
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#68

Post by suthdj » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:12 am

Washington post has an story saying NRA board member blames Pastor they are talking about a comment Charles made here and have a copy of the post on the page I cant copy and paste for some reason sorry. So watch what we say as they are watching and waiting to twist anything they can.
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jmra
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#69

Post by jmra » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:16 am

suthdj wrote:Washington post has an story saying NRA board member blames Pastor they are talking about a comment Charles made here and have a copy of the post on the page I cant copy and paste for some reason sorry. So watch what we say as they are watching and waiting to twist anything they can.
Yep. Some blogger posted it out of context and it's taken off from there.
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#70

Post by AndyC » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:29 am

Beiruty wrote:
rp_photo wrote:I just read that he had a pending Felony. Wouldn't that make it illegal for him to posess a gun?
Until his conviction he is an accused not a felon
Surely the form 4473 for his background-check would have disqualified him?

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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#71

Post by Jim Beaux » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:32 am

Rachel Martin wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
ShootDontTalk wrote:Something else to consider: The pastor of this church, who was killed, is a State Legislator in S.C.
And he voted against concealed-carry. Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead.

Chas.

That's some serious victim-blaming, sir. Isn't the murderer in fact the one to blame for the nine dead folks being dead? (I realize that may not fit your agenda, to put the blame squarely where it belongs - at the feet of a guy who used a gun to kill nine innocents in a house of worship - but try for some accuracy. You demean your cause otherwise, I feel.)
Rachel,

I appreciate your considerate manner and feel obligated to respond in kind.

In my line of work when we experience an incident / accident, we conduct "A Lessons Learned". The agenda is not to assign blame, but to determine what conditions contributed to the event & what preventative measures we can logistically implement.

Lessons Learned has taught that we cannot eliminate all threats, but it has led us to do tasks in a safer manner.

In the case of this massacre, an event that is a result of a person breaking the law, just how can another law prevent a future occurrence?

I speak for the forum in welcoming you to stay and interact with us. You will find us to be a respectful and thoughtful group that have put a lot of thought in protecting ourselves and family.
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jmra
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#72

Post by jmra » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:33 am

AndyC wrote:
Beiruty wrote:
rp_photo wrote:I just read that he had a pending Felony. Wouldn't that make it illegal for him to posess a gun?
Until his conviction he is an accused not a felon
Surely the form 4473 for his background-check would have disqualified him?

[ Image ]
From what I understand the gun was given to him by his father as a birthday present.
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#73

Post by RoyGBiv » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:41 am

EHooper02 wrote:I really only have one question:

If what he said wasn't wrong, why has it been deleted and you have been left to defend his statement?

Understand your board is probably under a lot of fire right now, and I'm certainly not trying to add to that. Just something to think about, I feel.
I can't tell you why the post has been removed, but I can tell you that this shooting is the perfect example of the fallacy that is "gun control".

South Carolina law requires that permission be granted for a license holder to carry a gun into church. Law abiding people are disarmed by that law. Murderers are not. Passing more laws restricting where people can carry guns only affect those people who abide by the law. Murderers, in some cases, have found such off-limits places to be nothing more than a place where they can carry out murderous acts without fear of anyone being able to effectively defend themselves.

Nobody is to blame here, except the killer himself.

I choose not to be in places where I am required to disarm. I would not attend this church.
I don't have a crystal ball that tells me where I might run in to a crazed killer, so, I choose to remain prepared to defend myself at all times.

Welcome to the forum EHooper02. I think you'll find your considered opinions welcome here, even though we might disagree.
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#74

Post by Jim Beaux » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:45 am

EHooper02 wrote:I really only have one question:

If what he said wasn't wrong, why has it been deleted and you have been left to defend his statement?

Understand your board is probably under a lot of fire right now, and I'm certainly not trying to add to that. Just something to think about, I feel.
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Re: Church shooting Charleston SC

#75

Post by AndyC » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:51 am

mikesurf111 wrote:You people are insane rednecks

I'm a Brit.
mikesurf111 wrote:who love these massacres......
Really? You don't have exclusivity on grieving for the dead, you know. Those could easily have been our brothers, wives, sisters and fathers, sons and daughters.
mikesurf111 wrote:its Fd up that you want people to carry guns in churches of all places..let alone other public places.
It's certainly messed-up that the society in which we live makes it necessary to think about and prepare for an attacker in a school or church, yes - but ignoring reality doesn't make it any less real.

You might want to watch the video of the opinion of a church massacre survivor: http://www.wnd.com/2015/06/hero-of-1993 ... ing-armed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
mikesurf111 wrote:Guess what the developed westernized countries with the most gun related violence, accidents, and deaths is the country with the most guns. Ill let you guys figure out who that is.
Plano, Texas - or Gun-Nut Central as it's been called - has a murder rate of 0.4/100,000 people. I'll match that against the murder rate of any of your Democrat-run, "gun-free" hellholes like Chicago, NYC, Baltimore, DC, Detroit, Los Angeles, etc. Oh, wait - perhaps you mean this:

Image
mikesurf111 wrote:But the more these massacres happen.. the more we will win this battle.
Good luck with that - this isn't a hobby for us, it's a lifestyle. To quote Churchill: "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

Pack a lunch, neighbor - it's going to be a long day for you.
mikesurf111 wrote:Your argument will fall flat trying to tell people that they should bring guns to church LOl it is almost laughable...and most of you are probably god believers also...because we all know that is what he would want.
Nobody's forcing anyone to bring a gun to church. With that said - Luke 22:36 "He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
mikesurf111 wrote:The height of lunacy is that thinking that the answer to gun violence is more guns.
Perhaps it's counter-intuitive to those who have never been taught analytical thinking skills, but do try and think for yourself.

Do you remember this case? SC Concealed Carrier Stops Mass Shooting During Church Service.

How about this one? Jeanne Assam - New Life Church

Or this? Charl van Wyk - St James Church Massacre
mikesurf111 wrote:But have fun with this...maybe if you are lucky there will be more massacres...you could orgasm over that every time it happens
Pot, meet kettle. We don't have anything to gain from anyone's deaths, but your side does.
Last edited by AndyC on Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:03 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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