TX:The mean streets of Houston - man robbed at ATM indicted

[Rafe]

If a life is to be forfeit due to your criminal actions, and it comes down to me or thee, all other factors and exigencies being equal...it's going to be thee.

What exactly would the assistant chief expect if one of her officers, alone and on the street, was attacked by two men and had already been struck in the head with a blunt object? For the officer to give them free tickets to a Texans home game and offer to sit down and talk about their situation over coffee? While they continued hitting the officer in the head...or worse?

For something completely different: Does anybody know how tall either Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez or HPD Chief Troy Finner are?

I saw them together in a presser yesterday about the manhunt and eventual SWAT standoff in the Humble area that ended, finally, in the capture of the scum that shot three LEOs within 24 hours (https://www.khou.com/article/news/crime ... 51e4d7317c). Either most of the people, including the women, surrounding Gonzalez and Finner were over 6 feet tall--and some of them approaching 7 feet--or our head LEOs are around 5'6" or so. Not an issue, mind you; it's just that, like the immortal words directed at Patrick Swayze's character in the movie Roadhouse: "I thought you'd be bigger."

[Grayling813]

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/stat ... 36444.html

The assistant chief seems to have more sympathy for the "suspects" aka aggravated robbers than the victims.

“To anyone who’s watching … please consider your actions, consider your decisions, because choices have consequences,” Hatcher said at the briefing. “The suspects here, I would believe, have loved ones who will now be grieving their loss.”

She's a moron who shouldn't be taken seriously as a law enforcement officer.

[philip964]

https://www.click2houston.com/news/loca ... o-give-up/

Suspect who shot three officers hole up in a two story brick home, he didn’t own and wasn’t renting.

Some kind of armored crane was used to remove all the windows along with a lot of the brick. A robot dog was used to find him in a second floor closet.

Pity the poor home owner.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -Paso.html

Undocumented asylum seeker rapes and murders 11 yo little girl. Pushes her dead body under her bed.

[puma guy]

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/stat ... 36444.html

The assistant chief seems to have more sympathy for the "suspects" aka aggravated robbers than the victims.

“To anyone who’s watching … please consider your actions, consider your decisions, because choices have consequences,” Hatcher said at the briefing. “The suspects here, I would believe, have loved ones who will now be grieving their loss.”

She's a moron who shouldn't be taken seriously as a law enforcement officer.

She must be as qualified as the moronic Emergency Manager on Maui!

[03Lightningrocks]

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/stat ... 36444.html

The assistant chief seems to have more sympathy for the "suspects" aka aggravated robbers than the victims.

“To anyone who’s watching … please consider your actions, consider your decisions, because choices have consequences,” Hatcher said at the briefing. “The suspects here, I would believe, have loved ones who will now be grieving their loss.”

She's a moron who shouldn't be taken seriously as a law enforcement officer.

I think we can all be honest here. She only got the job because of her skin color. And what Houston receives in return is a racist black woman trying to punish all white people.

[philip964]

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/harri ... et-haircut

Murderer free on bond so can get haircut.

https://abc13.com/stolen-tesla-man-trac ... /13705785/

Tesla stolen. Everyone knows where it is. Police tell owner not to retrieve it himself. But they won’t recover it for him so it sits in an apartment parking lot.

September 6, 2023

https://www.click2houston.com/news/loca ... -arrested/

12 yo boy murder on way home from school.

[Chaparral]

Carter’s Country employee charged with murder after shooting fleeing unarmed thief who grabbed cash from the register.

https://abc13.com/carters-country-stor ... /13875854/

[Paladin]

Carter’s Country employee charged with murder after shooting fleeing unarmed thief who grabbed cash from the register.

https://abc13.com/carters-country-stor ... /13875854/

There seems to be some dispute about the "thief" being unarmed:

He points out initial police reports said that Terry had a sharp object and that the employee who shot him feared for his life.

There is a substantial difference between a theft and a robbery. I could see the case decided on that difference alone.

[Chaparral]

Carter’s Country employee charged with murder after shooting fleeing unarmed thief who grabbed cash from the register.

https://abc13.com/carters-country-stor ... /13875854/

There seems to be some dispute about the "thief" being unarmed:

He points out initial police reports said that Terry had a sharp object and that the employee who shot him feared for his life.

There is a substantial difference between a theft and a robbery. I could see the case decided on that difference alone.

Indeed, the difference between robbery and theft is key to this case. An important distinction to understand.

[Rafe]

Carter’s Country employee charged with murder after shooting fleeing unarmed thief who grabbed cash from the register.

https://abc13.com/carters-country-stor ... /13875854/

There seems to be some dispute about the "thief" being unarmed:

He points out initial police reports said that Terry had a sharp object and that the employee who shot him feared for his life.

There is a substantial difference between a theft and a robbery. I could see the case decided on that difference alone.

Indeed, the difference between robbery and theft is key to this case. An important distinction to understand.

And even if deemed to be a robbery, and an armed one, the weapon may make a big difference, as well. The ABC13 article states that Terry was unarmed. From the surveillance footage, it certainly seems that way. What Terry transfers from one hand to the other as he walks toward the cash register isn't a firearm, and doesn't look like a bladed weapon, either. Looks more like a piece of folded paper.

And the footage seems to clearly show Terry making no threatening moves of any kind toward either store employee. He simply dashes out the door as quickly as he can. He runs off camera so we don't know what he's doing at that point, but Winger already has a sight picture and looks milliseconds away from pulling the trigger just as Terry leaves the frame.

From every angle, this looks like a bad shoot. Unless Terry was actually in possession of a firearm, I think Winger's going down.

[srothstein]

The weapon is irrelevant to the robbery. Among other things, PC 29.02 defines robbery as if a person threatens the victim or places the victim in fear of imminent injury during a theft. PC 9.42 allows for the use of deadly force to stop someone from from fleeing after committing a robbery.

If the initial police report is correct, the shoot was good.

[Rafe]

The weapon is irrelevant to the robbery. Among other things, PC 29.02 defines robbery as if a person threatens the victim or places the victim in fear of imminent injury during a theft. PC 9.42 allows for the use of deadly force to stop someone from from fleeing after committing a robbery.

If the initial police report is correct, the shoot was good.

Thanks, Steve. I stand corrected, then, on the means with which the robber can threaten injury. However, did you look at the surveillance footage in that ABC13 piece? They claim, at least for now, they are the only news outlet that has it. It shows the activity unbroken from the moment Terry enters the store until he ducks his head as he's fleeing. He seems unarmed, never comes within probably 20 feet of either store employee, and never seems to make any threatening or even challenging gesture at all. As soon as Terry is spotted, it seems all he's interested in is running away.

And doesn't PC 9.42 specify qualifications to use of deadly force to stop someone who is fleeing after committing burglary or robbery? Isn't item 2(B) dependent on satisfying the requirements of (3), namely that the property cannot be recovered by other means (in this instance, it's cash-drawer change that does not belong the shooter, belongs to the chain retail store, and presumably can't be over a few hundred dollars), or that "the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury"? It also looks like item (2) applies to its subitems as well item (3), to wit: "...would be justified...when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary."

In this case, use of force other than deadly force was never possible because the individuals never came close enough to each other even for a nice blast of streaming FOX pepper spray. The initial police report supposedly indicated that Terry "had a sharp object," but from the surveillance we never see him pull it or threaten anyone with it unless he stopped his sprint immediately off camera and turned around to bring a folder or a box-cutter into a gunfight...which it's difficult to believe anyone would be stupid enough to do, especially if you're sprinting away and already have 7-yard+ lead on your heavier pursuer.

We'll see how it turns out in court. But I think Wingers' defense attorney has an uphill battle since the surveillance video both inside and outside the store seems to paint a pretty clear picture.

[puma guy]

The weapon is irrelevant to the robbery. Among other things, PC 29.02 defines robbery as if a person threatens the victim or places the victim in fear of imminent injury during a theft. PC 9.42 allows for the use of deadly force to stop someone from from fleeing after committing a robbery.

If the initial police report is correct, the shoot was good.

Thank you, Steve.

[srothstein]

The weapon is irrelevant to the robbery. Among other things, PC 29.02 defines robbery as if a person threatens the victim or places the victim in fear of imminent injury during a theft. PC 9.42 allows for the use of deadly force to stop someone from from fleeing after committing a robbery.

If the initial police report is correct, the shoot was good.

Thanks, Steve. I stand corrected, then, on the means with which the robber can threaten injury. However, did you look at the surveillance footage in that ABC13 piece? They claim, at least for now, they are the only news outlet that has it. It shows the activity unbroken from the moment Terry enters the store until he ducks his head as he's fleeing. He seems unarmed, never comes within probably 20 feet of either store employee, and never seems to make any threatening or even challenging gesture at all. As soon as Terry is spotted, it seems all he's interested in is running away.

And doesn't PC 9.42 specify qualifications to use of deadly force to stop someone who is fleeing after committing burglary or robbery? Isn't item 2(B) dependent on satisfying the requirements of (3), namely that the property cannot be recovered by other means (in this instance, it's cash-drawer change that does not belong the shooter, belongs to the chain retail store, and presumably can't be over a few hundred dollars), or that "the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury"? It also looks like item (2) applies to its subitems as well item (3), to wit: "...would be justified...when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary."

In this case, use of force other than deadly force was never possible because the individuals never came close enough to each other even for a nice blast of streaming FOX pepper spray. The initial police report supposedly indicated that Terry "had a sharp object," but from the surveillance we never see him pull it or threaten anyone with it unless he stopped his sprint immediately off camera and turned around to bring a folder or a box-cutter into a gunfight...which it's difficult to believe anyone would be stupid enough to do, especially if you're sprinting away and already have 7-yard+ lead on your heavier pursuer.

We'll see how it turns out in court. But I think Wingers' defense attorney has an uphill battle since the surveillance video both inside and outside the store seems to paint a pretty clear picture.

I did not watch the video and was just pointing out that the robbery does not even need a weapon. The mere verbal threat of I will stab you or shoot you is enough to make it robbery, justifying deadly force. And, yes the other qualifications also apply. The weird part of this is how money is normally fungible but not in this case. The law says the stolen material and if he did not stop him now, it would not be recovered because money is so easily hidden or transferred. If he had said he had a knife, then the belief that there would be danger to grabbing him would also be reasonable. And in that case, the deadly force would be immediately necessary since he could not stop the fleeing man or recover money otherwise.

But I was very careful to say that if the original police reports were correct about the belief of imminent fear, then it would be justified. I do that because I wasn't on the scene or investigating and can only go by the reports.

[philip964]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/18/business ... index.html

Houston hotel cancels Pro Palestinian conference due to security concerns. Talab was going to be here.

There were possibly afraid of these young children pledging to be martyrs here in Houston.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2023 ... ayatollah/