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txbirddog wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:09 pm While we constitute a large number that support and commit to carrying, we are only a group of <4% of the population. So if there were 200 (arbitrary number) in Walmart at the time of shooting, there would have been approximately 8 with an LTC. Given, unfortunately, that all who have an LTC, carry on a consistent basis, there may have been, let’s say 5 that were actually armed and of those 5, 3 who were trained and maybe then 1 who would actually engage the shooter.

So even in Texas the odds favor the evil amongst us. This is why it’s SO important to talk others into our fold and even more for us to CARRY EVERYDAY AND EVERYWHERE.

I agree. Carrying is now a duty.

Your math does not count the location. Many may have not been allow to carry.

Sounds really suspicious to me, conspiracy maybe? You never know what the left will do to complete their agenda. It seams like in most of these cases it's either suicide or suicide by cop. Just giving up is weird, maybe he got paid for this? I will say I feel bad for the family's of their loved ones!

txbirddog wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:09 pm While we constitute a large number that support and commit to carrying, we are only a group of <4% of the population. So if there were 200 (arbitrary number) in Walmart at the time of shooting, there would have been approximately 8 with an LTC. Given, unfortunately, that all who have an LTC, carry on a consistent basis, there may have been, let’s say 5 that were actually armed and of those 5, 3 who were trained and maybe then 1 who would actually engage the shooter.

So even in Texas the odds favor the evil amongst us. This is why it’s SO important to talk others into our fold and even more for us to CARRY EVERYDAY AND EVERYWHERE.

Great thought. As mentioned above with people running and falling you would to be petty close to make a for sure shot. Last week slim Arlington an Officer shot and killed the woman who he was doing a welfare check on trying to shoot a dog he considered was charging him.

El Paso county has 2.9% of the state population. The county with the least new LTCs per capita in 2017 is Maverick (0.27%). The most is Borden co with 5.5% per capita. Borden co has 673 residents.

El Paso is on the low end at 0.46% new LTCs per capita. This pattern goes back to 2012, when I stopped looking. If they were on the mean, it would be 2.9%. It appears El Paso is lightly armed. Their 0.46% per capita represents about 1.5% for all Texas.

Hypothetical test question: You're legally carrying, with your SO on a shopping outing, and you hear gunfire within the store, what do you THINK you would do?

Oldgringo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:48 pm Hypothetical test question: You're legally carrying, with your SO on a shopping outing, and you hear gunfire within the store, what do you THINK you would do?

I have heard that no one knows if he can run to gunfire until he has done it. I know what I hope I would do. I will be looking at upgrading my carry.

Oldgringo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:48 pm Hypothetical test question: You're legally carrying, with your SO on a shopping outing, and you hear gunfire within the store, what do you THINK you would do?

My loved ones are with me? I ascertain where the shots are coming from and move my family in the opposite direction. I would attempt to find concealment for them and then remain ready to fire if the threat came into my zone.

I've got a good woman, she does have some mobility issues. I'm getting too old to break in another. I'll fight to the death to protect her, but the Run, Hide and Fight model seems pretty sane when you're with someone you love.

I don't like the odds of my 13rnd 9mm 2.5 inch barrel against an AK47.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:07 pm

Oldgringo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:48 pm Hypothetical test question: You're legally carrying, with your SO on a shopping outing, and you hear gunfire within the store, what do you THINK you would do?

My loved ones are with me? I ascertain where the shots are coming from and move my family in the opposite direction. I would attempt to find concealment for them and then remain ready to fire if the threat came into my zone.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:07 pm

Oldgringo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:48 pm Hypothetical test question: You're legally carrying, with your SO on a shopping outing, and you hear gunfire within the store, what do you THINK you would do?

My loved ones are with me? I ascertain where the shots are coming from and move my family in the opposite direction. I would attempt to find concealment for them and then remain ready to fire if the threat came into my zone.

This is what I would do. Best would be get them out of the store. There isn't much cover in a store that can't be penetrated by an AK round.

Do we have any way of knowing the demographic of how many of our LTCs are of hispanic decent?

Liberty wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:01 am I've got a good woman, she does have some mobility issues. I'm getting too old to break in another. I'll fight to the death to protect her, but the Run, Hide and Fight model seems pretty sane when you're with someone you love.

I don't like the odds of my 13rnd 9mm 2.5 inch barrel against an AK47.

My M&P M2.0 9mm 5inch carries 17+1 with 32 more on my belt. Don't like those odds either. For 34 years, my mission was to ride to the sound of the guns. No more. I'm retired and disabled. Unless directly confronted by the evil threat, my priority is to get my loved ones and myself home safely. If I can help others along the way, I will.

There is little cover from pistol fire inside a Walmart. There is even less cover from rifle fire.

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:07 pm

Oldgringo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:48 pm Hypothetical test question: You're legally carrying, with your SO on a shopping outing, and you hear gunfire within the store, what do you THINK you would do?

My loved ones are with me? I ascertain where the shots are coming from and move my family in the opposite direction. I would attempt to find concealment for them and then remain ready to fire if the threat came into my zone.

I’m younger, able and usually carry. My weapon is to protect myself and my family. If i can stop the threat when it starts, so be it. But in this situation, I’ll take my family away from the shooting and hunker down, weapon drawn defensively.

txbirddog wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:09 pm While we constitute a large number that support and commit to carrying, we are only a group of <4% of the population. So if there were 200 (arbitrary number) in Walmart at the time of shooting, there would have been approximately 8 with an LTC. Given, unfortunately, that all who have an LTC, carry on a consistent basis, there may have been, let’s say 5 that were actually armed and of those 5, 3 who were trained and maybe then 1 who would actually engage the shooter.

So even in Texas the odds favor the evil among us. This is why it’s SO important to talk others into our fold and even more for us to CARRY EVERYDAY AND EVERYWHERE.

Having an LTC does not obligate you to seek and destroy the killer. Like several have mentioned, they would secure themselves and their family and cover the egress. If they can gather up people on the way, then even better. There is no shame in that and is a sound tactical move. If you don't know the location of the shooter(s) and aren't very familiar with the floor plan of the location then heading into the fire without armor and a rifle may not be the wisest move . I also suspect that if the LTC is in the same immediate area the killer is in then they are more likely to engage as they are immediately threatened and understand the situation at hand.

What must happen for us, as a society, to severally curtail these events is to have a much higher percentage of LTCs so when the guy walks in and open fires 3 or 4 individuals in the immediate area draw and hit him with 12 rounds. It's no different than the thinking behind Run, Hide, Fight and similar training. Overpower him with numbers. If 3 or 4 pistol wielders shot him at the first sign then these evil people would think twice about their actions. It would be over almost as fast as it began. There likely would be casualties but I venture the numbers would be a lot less. As a result I see the instances of mass shootings declining.

Undoubtedly this is a societal issue and one we must address but we need to meet this evil with firepower in the meantime.

(There's a lot more to it than this but I'm already late to work. You get the basic drift)

Please read this article. It is worth your time

Oldgringo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:48 pm Hypothetical test question: You're legally carrying, with your SO on a shopping outing, and you hear gunfire within the store, what do you THINK you would do?

Wife and I would both have guns drawn. Kids would daisy chain holding hands with mom so she still has a gun in the fight. I take point, moving as far from the shooter(s) as possible toward the nearest exit. Once the family is safe, reassess the situation to see if I have enough of an advantage to win a gun fight against the shooter(s) and potentially save the lives of others. If so, engage, eliminate, and move to first aid on the victims. If not, extricate and provide the best possible intel to first responders - potentially even staying in the store and providing intel via phone so they have eyes inside.

Beiruty wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:22 am Please read this article. It is worth your time

Great article. Thanks for sharing it.