IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

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philip964
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IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#1

Post by philip964 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:32 pm

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/regi ... -ntsb-says

Plane crashed, well known doctor.

Nozzels are different. Guy readjusted and got it to work.

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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#2

Post by Jago668 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:38 pm

We had guys use their hands as funnels to get diesel into gas tanks. We've had people put gas in diesel tanks
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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#3

Post by carlson1 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:45 pm

Earlier in the year I filled my F-250 Diesel with gas and then drove it about five miles. Not a cheap fix.
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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#4

Post by chamberc » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:32 pm

philip964 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:32 pm
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/regi ... -ntsb-says

Plane crashed, well known doctor.

Nozzels are different. Guy readjusted and got it to work.
Epstein's plastic surgeon.
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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#5

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:09 pm

carlson1 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:45 pm
Earlier in the year I filled my F-250 Diesel with gas and then drove it about five miles. Not a cheap fix.
I used an F250 diesel to pull a race trailer several years ago. Many of my trips would entail some very long hours, late into the night. I bet I came close to doing that 20 times over a couple years. Being tired it was easier to do than one might think. I always caught myself before pumping..

In the early 1980's, I worked at DFW airport as a fueler. My memory is faded now but I swear I remember the nozzle for Jet A being quite a bit larger than avgas. I also recall the wings being labeled as avgas by the fuel caps. The guy doing the fueling really should have known better, no matter what the pilot said.


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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#6

Post by K.Mooneyham » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:47 am

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:09 pm
carlson1 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:45 pm
Earlier in the year I filled my F-250 Diesel with gas and then drove it about five miles. Not a cheap fix.
I used an F250 diesel to pull a race trailer several years ago. Many of my trips would entail some very long hours, late into the night. I bet I came close to doing that 20 times over a couple years. Being tired it was easier to do than one might think. I always caught myself before pumping..

In the early 1980's, I worked at DFW airport as a fueler. My memory is faded now but I swear I remember the nozzle for Jet A being quite a bit larger than avgas. I also recall the wings being labeled as avgas by the fuel caps. The guy doing the fueling really should have known better, no matter what the pilot said.
I'm an Air Force "retired" veteran aircraft maintainer, and A&P mechanic, with many years of working on jet aircraft. Yes, the nozzles are different sizes and yes, the aircraft is required to be labeled as to what sort of fuel it takes. Your memory is fine.

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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#7

Post by RPBrown » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:36 am

about 30 years ago, my son decided he was going to help us out and filled out car up------with water :cryin
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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#8

Post by LDP » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:07 pm

philip964 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:32 pm
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/regi ... -ntsb-says

Plane crashed, well known doctor.

Nozzels are different. Guy readjusted and got it to work.
Old news. Happened 2 months ago, the surgeon is already buried.

Love all the misleading headlines plus plain misinformation. Journalism is dead. No fact checking either.
- The plastic surgeon did not die from fuel poisoning as it poured into his plane.
- Millions of prop planes fly just fine on Jet fuel. Actually, they prefer JetA for their turbines.
- The surgeon didn't crash due to wrong fuel. He crashed because he overshot his emergency landing site and hit trees.
And while everyone without sufficient facts blames the FBO employee for putting the wrong fuel into the fuel tanks, he has alibi that he asked the pilot 3 times whether he wanted Jet fuel and the pilot agreed every time.
This was a big miscommunication mishap and frankly, the pilot is ultimately responsible for ordering fuel, overseeing the fueling process and checking the tanks afterwards. Skipping these steps could have very undesired consequences and it sure did this time.
Most of us try to learn from our mistakes. This pilot does not get that chance.
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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#9

Post by Syntyr » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:15 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:09 pm



In the early 1980's, I worked at DFW airport as a fueler. My memory is faded now but I swear I remember the nozzle for Jet A being quite a bit larger than avgas. I also recall the wings being labeled as avgas by the fuel caps. The guy doing the fueling really should have known better, no matter what the pilot said.
Ding ding ding. The knuckle head had to work to get Jet A into an av gas tank. The article said he thought the Piper Aerostar “looked” like a jet! :totap: :headscratch
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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#10

Post by philip964 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:53 pm

Syntyr wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:15 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:09 pm



In the early 1980's, I worked at DFW airport as a fueler. My memory is faded now but I swear I remember the nozzle for Jet A being quite a bit larger than avgas. I also recall the wings being labeled as avgas by the fuel caps. The guy doing the fueling really should have known better, no matter what the pilot said.
Ding ding ding. The knuckle head had to work to get Jet A into an av gas tank. The article said he thought the Piper Aerostar “looked” like a jet! :totap: :headscratch

Only one commenter has brought up the Jeffery Epstein connection and that he flew medical supplies to Haiti. The Arkansas plane and Yale connections are just a bonus.


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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#11

Post by RSX11 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:03 pm

The article said he thought the Piper Aerostar “looked” like a jet!
He probably meant that the Piper Aerostar looked like a turboprop plane, which has jet engines that drive propellors...a less outrageous mistake.

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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#12

Post by JustSomeOldGuy » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:04 pm

Disclaimer: what little I know about piloting is from casual conversations with pilots I know, and watching stuff like "Airplane Repo" on Discovery Channel.

Q: even if the fuel jockey stuffed in the wrong fuel, shouldn't the pilot have caught it in pre-flight when he checked filler caps, drain valves, and for water in the fuel? Or was the doc's pre-flight more like "kick the tires and light the fires"? Kerosene and gasoline smell very different to me in my experience (earthbound motorized vehicles). I have to imagine that JP4 doesn't smell that much like high octane av gas......if you bother to inhale, or get some on your hands....
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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#13

Post by ELB » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:08 pm

I took "looked like a jet" to mean it looked like it had "jet" engines as a shorthand for turbine engines, which can power either jet or turboprop aircraft, both using Jet A Fuel.

AFAIK, the pilot, who is trained and certificated on his aircraft and its systems, has final word and responsibility for what happens to his aircraft. If he agreed 3X with "Jet A", then he owns the fuel mistake. The fuel truck guy could have made a bigger fuss about the nozzle not matching the tank opening, but the pilot get the final say.
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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#14

Post by ELB » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:10 pm

p.s. I forgot the link to the NTSB preliminary report: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... L&IType=FA
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Re: IN: Tampa plastic surgeon dies after jet fuel put in prop plane

#15

Post by LDP » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:14 pm

ELB wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:08 pm
The fuel truck guy could have made a bigger fuss about the nozzle not matching the tank opening, but the pilot get the final say.
Agreed, the PIC has the final word. But we all make mistakes.
I bet the ramp guy is beating himself up: "if only I had nagged him more, he could be alive today".

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