Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

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carlson1
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#76

Post by carlson1 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:50 am

philip964 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 am
Parishioner hero with a license to carry - Security Guard

Hero defender of the congregation - Gunman

These are not accidents or a rush to get a story out, this is ingrained negative bias.

The murderers sister said it was her other brother’s Birthday. He committed suicide in 2008.

Both brothers were on and off homeless. He came to the church often for help. He apparently could quote the Bible. She was unaware of any hard feelings he had for the church as they had always treated him well.

One shot from Mr. Wilson. Two shotgun blasts, but one was supposedly at the ceiling. Three dead. Did I miss something?
From the Senior Pastor, they had helped home several times with food, but refused to give him money. Could also be part of his reasoning.
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#77

Post by bbhack » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:53 am

New nickname:
Headshot Wilson
(not meant to be anything but complimentary).
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#78

Post by LDP » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:58 am

Heard on the news tonight that some NY moron calls for more funding for church security. I call him a moron for numerous reasons:
1) the state cannot fund religious organizations, remember the whole "separation of church and state"?
2) we already have church security - it is called "lawfully armed citizen"
3) he probably does not mean security but "security theatre" and wants to put up metal detectors and gunbuster signs

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#79

Post by RoyGBiv » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:02 am

I thought this was a good early analysis... emphasis on early.

I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#80

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:57 am

President Trump on White Settlement



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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#81

Post by Rob72 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:15 am

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:08 pm

I've been given the impression that unless the assailant already has a weapon out, perhaps even in use, that an attempt at de-escalation is just about a must to avoid being brought up on charges by a prosecutor. "Why didn't someone just try to talk him down, they didn't have to just go and shoot him like that", or some other statement to that effect will be made. Self-defense laws pretty much seem to have a "react" clause built into them, since most of us cannot articulate things the way someone with legal system training can. Please note, I'm not advocating for anything, just making an observation that the laws are written in a manner that puts the armed citizen at a disadvantage against violent assailants.
I would in many respects agree. One may be absolutely correct that an aggressor was an imminent threat, but because one is unable to adequately articulate the nature of the threat, things can get expensive.

However, in Texas, the appearance of a weapon, in conjunction with overtly aggressive/intrusive behavior, qualifies as a reasonably lethal threat(if you can articulate it! :cool: ), i.e., had the deceased security team member covertly drawn, and kept his weapon behind his right thigh, as soon as he saw the assailant's gun coming out, it would have been go-n-move time. All of these issues, articulation, assault cue recognition, and verbalization of threat/action, are things that should be part of one's training. If they aren't, time to bone up on some details... Also, bear in mind, even "security" is not held to the standard of LE- we have no duty to arrest, and if someone wants to commit suicide by whipping out a shotgun, the decision as to protecting the congregation, or terminating an observed threat, should be fairly straightforward.

The overall layout was very challenging, and should serve to alert all of us that there may be no "good decisions" in a house of worship. The people with the best firing/first response positions were the usher and the security team member who was shot. From the moment the assailant brought his weapon out, all others were at a disadvantage. If someone near the center of the congregation fired, and did not immediately stop the gunman, he could well fire one or more rounds into the densely packed congregants. Had the gunman walked down the center aisle, there is an inherent crossfire, in addition to the active/reactive decision making that each member of security has to make.

Overall, I would say it is important to have very clear non-lethal interventional options in place, e.g., if you "have eyes" on someone, a member of security should be available to engage them in conversation, shake hands, and have a non-verbal signal to call LE. Ideally, the "greeter" should be someone who is not afraid to tussle or, "create a scene", and has excellent judgement overall. Acquiring a CHL does not bestow those traits...


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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#82

Post by dlh » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:22 am

philip964 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 am
Parishioner hero with a license to carry - Security Guard

Hero defender of the congregation - Gunman

These are not accidents or a rush to get a story out, this is ingrained negative bias.

The murderers sister said it was her other brother’s Birthday. He committed suicide in 2008.

Both brothers were on and off homeless. He came to the church often for help. He apparently could quote the Bible. She was unaware of any hard feelings he had for the church as they had always treated him well.

One shot from Mr. Wilson. Two shotgun blasts, but one was supposedly at the ceiling. Three dead. Did I miss something?
The evil murderer first shot Mr. White then fired a second blast into Mr. Wallace. Mr. Wilson then shot the evil murderer. There may have been a third shotgun blast into the ceiling contemporaneous with the shot from Mr. Wilson.

Some say there was a second parishioner who also shot the evil murderer but nobody has been identified in that supposed shooting and that may not have happened. If there was I would like to hear from him too since we have heard now from Mr. Wilson.
Please know and follow the rules of firearms safety.


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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#83

Post by Rob72 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:35 am

retrieverman wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:20 pm
I’ve watched the unedited video about 50 times to try to learn from this situation, and I’ve concluded I need to re-evaluate what and how I carry at church.
Well, yes, a Tac-13 (semi-auto) with a good red dot optic, and a shoulderable brace, with 1oz. Brennekes, while seated in the balcony would be just about optimal. :mrgreen: Unfortunately, we don't generally get to pick the how and when.

In the early 70s, 7-11s in NYC were installing catwalks, and NYPD officers were stationed in them. Once a robber appeared with a drawn weapon, he received a load of 00. This was deemed too inhumane, fatalities were right about 100%. It did, however, decrease convenience store robberies.

I agree with TAM, evaluate how you carry, but above all, train hard. Push your limits, physically, verbally, and tactically. Any "tool" will suffice, but some are inherently more appropriate than others.


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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#84

Post by Mike S » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:50 am

dlh wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:22 am
philip964 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 am
Parishioner hero with a license to carry - Security Guard

Hero defender of the congregation - Gunman

These are not accidents or a rush to get a story out, this is ingrained negative bias.

The murderers sister said it was her other brother’s Birthday. He committed suicide in 2008.

Both brothers were on and off homeless. He came to the church often for help. He apparently could quote the Bible. She was unaware of any hard feelings he had for the church as they had always treated him well.

One shot from Mr. Wilson. Two shotgun blasts, but one was supposedly at the ceiling. Three dead. Did I miss something?
The evil murderer first shot Mr. White then fired a second blast into Mr. Wallace. Mr. Wilson then shot the evil murderer. There may have been a third shotgun blast into the ceiling contemporaneous with the shot from Mr. Wilson.

Some say there was a second parishioner who also shot the evil murderer but nobody has been identified in that supposed shooting and that may not have happened. If there was I would like to hear from him too since we have heard now from Mr. Wilson.
According to Atty Gen Ken Paxton, Mr Wilson was the only one to engage the killer. I believe cruddy reporting is to blame, with someone extrapolating that "two security team members reacted by drawing their handguns" equated "two security team members fired their handguns".

The lead pastor of the church explains a bit of their past interaction with the mentally deranged killer, asking for prayers of healing for all affected, including the murderer's family. The article also discusses briefly the two victims.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/30/us/texas ... dmore_pool


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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#85

Post by mrvmax » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:03 am

I can understand how family members feel after losing relatives, even when they are the gunman that just murdered people. I cannot understand why the sister portrays her brother as religious and describes how he could give you a Bible scripture for any problem you had yet he went into a church and murdered people. Someone who murders two people is not “very close to the Lord”.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/texa ... ster-says/

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#86

Post by GeekwithaGun » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:31 am

mrvmax wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:03 am
I can understand how family members feel after losing relatives, even when they are the gunman that just murdered people. I cannot understand why the sister portrays her brother as religious and describes how he could give you a Bible scripture for any problem you had yet he went into a church and murdered people. Someone who murders two people is not “very close to the Lord”.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/texa ... ster-says/
Even the devil knows the Bible and can quote scripture.
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#87

Post by mojo84 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:59 am

mrvmax wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:03 am
I can understand how family members feel after losing relatives, even when they are the gunman that just murdered people. I cannot understand why the sister portrays her brother as religious and describes how he could give you a Bible scripture for any problem you had yet he went into a church and murdered people. Someone who murders two people is not “very close to the Lord”.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/texa ... ster-says/
I agree. Knowledge of the bible, scripture memorization and being religious does not make one a Christian or Jesus lord of their life. Evil can be deceptive.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#88

Post by Lena » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:05 pm

Reminds me of a man I met yrs ago that was the most anti gun/hunting I ever spoke to then it came out he processed wild game for a living and was a butcher.....
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#89

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:17 pm

dlh wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:22 am
philip964 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 am
Parishioner hero with a license to carry - Security Guard

Hero defender of the congregation - Gunman

These are not accidents or a rush to get a story out, this is ingrained negative bias.

The murderers sister said it was her other brother’s Birthday. He committed suicide in 2008.

Both brothers were on and off homeless. He came to the church often for help. He apparently could quote the Bible. She was unaware of any hard feelings he had for the church as they had always treated him well.

One shot from Mr. Wilson. Two shotgun blasts, but one was supposedly at the ceiling. Three dead. Did I miss something?
The evil murderer first shot Mr. White then fired a second blast into Mr. Wallace. Mr. Wilson then shot the evil murderer. There may have been a third shotgun blast into the ceiling contemporaneous with the shot from Mr. Wilson.

Some say there was a second parishioner who also shot the evil murderer but nobody has been identified in that supposed shooting and that may not have happened. If there was I would like to hear from him too since we have heard now from Mr. Wilson.
I made some sequential stills from the church video...... I’ll see if I can’t post them.....

#1. The hero is pulling the trigger, and the bad guy has started moving toward the stage with the gun leveled:
Image

#2. The hero's gun is in recoil. The bad guy has been hit, jerked the shotgun muzzle upward, and fired a shot toward the ceiling. The muzzle flash is evident:
Image

#3. The hero's gun is recovering from recoil. The bad guy has gone rag doll and has begun to slump to the floor:
Image

My son's brother-in-law is a long time River Oaks police officer, and now a detective. It’s a small dept and small community. I last saw him on Christmas Day, and I haven’t had a chance to talk to him since, to see if he knows the killer. But I’d be surprised if he didn’t.
Last edited by The Annoyed Man on Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#90

Post by LDP » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:17 pm

mrvmax wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:03 am
I cannot understand why the sister portrays her brother as religious and describes how he could give you a Bible scripture for any problem you had ...
This is a VERY common MO among criminals' families. "He was such a good guy, he never killed anybody". Until today. A good guy with 5 felony convictions or whatever?
Stupid people get emotional and lie to themselves. They cannot distinguish their beliefs from the truth. Again, because they are stupid and lack logical reasoning. That's why God gave us FecesBook, for all these morons to have an outlet.

Criminals are the good guys, don't forget. They never mean any harm, even when robbing/raping/murdering innocent people. That's how liberals think. Get used to it, it's not gonna get any better. Sorry for the bad news.

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