Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

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Redneck_Buddha
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#91

Post by Redneck_Buddha » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:31 pm

GeekwithaGun wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:31 am
mrvmax wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:03 am
I can understand how family members feel after losing relatives, even when they are the gunman that just murdered people. I cannot understand why the sister portrays her brother as religious and describes how he could give you a Bible scripture for any problem you had yet he went into a church and murdered people. Someone who murders two people is not “very close to the Lord”.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/texa ... ster-says/
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I've known hard-core atheists who know the bible (and apocryphal writings, like Enoch) backwards and forwards, inside and out.


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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#92

Post by dhoobler » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:37 pm

Reuters withdraws story that claimed the assailant in church shooting trained churchgoers at shooting range.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/12 ... c880337380
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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#93

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:38 pm

Flightmare wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:03 pm
. . . there WAS a new law passed in 2017 that I believe DOES deserve credit in this event. HB421 by Matt Rinaldi exempted volunteer church security personnel from Section 1702.333, Occupations Code. This allowed LTCs to carry self-defense handguns while volunteering. The heroes at this church (the one who stopped the shooter and the ones who fell while attempting to) were acting as a volunteer security team for the church.
This is exactly right! This much-needed change in the law has made a huge difference in terms of protecting congregations. It's a bill that, by its nature, did not garner media coverage, but it was a sea-change event in church security.

Chas.

Edited to add:
Rep. Rinaldi's HB421 did not pass because it was added to SB2065. Nevertheless, Rep. Rinaldi is the reason the law was changed and it was his effort to get it added to a bill that would pass.


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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#94

Post by K.Mooneyham » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:46 am

Rob72 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:35 am
retrieverman wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:20 pm
I’ve watched the unedited video about 50 times to try to learn from this situation, and I’ve concluded I need to re-evaluate what and how I carry at church.
Well, yes, a Tac-13 (semi-auto) with a good red dot optic, and a shoulderable brace, with 1oz. Brennekes, while seated in the balcony would be just about optimal. :mrgreen: Unfortunately, we don't generally get to pick the how and when.

In the early 70s, 7-11s in NYC were installing catwalks, and NYPD officers were stationed in them. Once a robber appeared with a drawn weapon, he received a load of 00. This was deemed too inhumane, fatalities were right about 100%. It did, however, decrease convenience store robberies.

I agree with TAM, evaluate how you carry, but above all, train hard. Push your limits, physically, verbally, and tactically. Any "tool" will suffice, but some are inherently more appropriate than others.
Is the part I highlighted a reference to Jim Cirillo and the Stakeout Squad?

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Lena
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#95

Post by Lena » Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:32 pm

We had the 7-11 shotgun squads here in Dallas with an officer hid in the back with a shotgun as described, they also stopped them as they were to effective and to many racial issues arose.
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#96

Post by KC5AV » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:19 pm

Has anyone seen calculations on how far Wilson's shot was?
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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#97

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:24 pm

carlson1 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:50 am
philip964 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 am
Parishioner hero with a license to carry - Security Guard

Hero defender of the congregation - Gunman

These are not accidents or a rush to get a story out, this is ingrained negative bias.

The murderers sister said it was her other brother’s Birthday. He committed suicide in 2008.

Both brothers were on and off homeless. He came to the church often for help. He apparently could quote the Bible. She was unaware of any hard feelings he had for the church as they had always treated him well.

One shot from Mr. Wilson. Two shotgun blasts, but one was supposedly at the ceiling. Three dead. Did I miss something?
From the Senior Pastor, they had helped home several times with food, but refused to give him money. Could also be part of his reasoning.
Unless LEOs find a final written statement from the murderer, we'll never know his motive for sure. That said, I believe he was there to kill the pastor and as many other people as possible. Immediately after shooting the two men in the rear of the sanctuary, he turned and headed for the front of the church. His shotgun was level and pointed in his direction of travel, as TAM pointed out in his still photos (thanks for those TAM). He had already killed two men and he could have killed more random people on his way to the front, but I believe he wanted to make sure the pastor was killed before he continued his carnage. My opinion is based upon his physical actions, as well as the knowledge that he held a grudge against the church for not giving him money. Whether it was the pastor's decision is not known, but the murderer probably held him responsible for the food-but-no-money policy.

Chas.

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#98

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:26 pm

KC5AV wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:19 pm
Has anyone seen calculations on how far Wilson's shot was?
I read that Wilson said it was about 10 yds, but it looked more like 12 to 15 yds. The angle of the camera makes it hard to estimate.

Chas.

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Lynyrd
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#99

Post by Lynyrd » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:36 pm

KC5AV wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:19 pm
Has anyone seen calculations on how far Wilson's shot was?
I have to agree with Charles. If you count the pews and look at the people for scale, it appears very near 15 yards.
Do what you say you're gonna do.


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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#100

Post by dlh » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:48 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:24 pm
carlson1 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:50 am
philip964 wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 am
Parishioner hero with a license to carry - Security Guard

Hero defender of the congregation - Gunman

These are not accidents or a rush to get a story out, this is ingrained negative bias.

The murderers sister said it was her other brother’s Birthday. He committed suicide in 2008.

Both brothers were on and off homeless. He came to the church often for help. He apparently could quote the Bible. She was unaware of any hard feelings he had for the church as they had always treated him well.

One shot from Mr. Wilson. Two shotgun blasts, but one was supposedly at the ceiling. Three dead. Did I miss something?
From the Senior Pastor, they had helped home several times with food, but refused to give him money. Could also be part of his reasoning.
Unless LEOs find a final written statement from the murderer, we'll never know his motive for sure. That said, I believe he was there to kill the pastor and as many other people as possible. Immediately after shooting the two men in the rear of the sanctuary, he turned and headed for the front of the church. His shotgun was level and pointed in his direction of travel, as TAM pointed out in his still photos (thanks for those TAM). He had already killed two men and he could have killed more random people on his way to the front, but I believe he wanted to make sure the pastor was killed before he continued his carnage. My opinion is based upon his physical actions, as well as the knowledge that he held a grudge against the church for not giving him money. Whether it was the pastor's decision is not known, but the murderer probably held him responsible for the food-but-no-money policy.

Chas.
Agreed. I also want to know the number of rounds he was carrying and whether he had drugs in his system and his mental health history. He appears to me to be the classic loser who decided this would be the way to gain some notoriety before his life ended. Sad that he had to take two good people with him. As the pastor said--there is evil in the world. :(
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#101

Post by ET-Ret » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:52 pm

How many and who did the shooting?

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#102

Post by troglodyte » Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:25 pm

https://apnews.com/856bfff9dc582b934ff8f60c7cb3af28

In 2012, a district judge in Oklahoma ruled him mentally incompetent to stand trial and ordered him committed to a psychiatric facility for treatment.

Kinnunen was charged with felony assault and battery with a dangerous weapon after he attacked the owner of a Chickasha, Oklahoma, doughnut shop in 2011, court records state. He was separately charged with arson that year after allegedly starting a fire in a cotton field by tying tampons soaked in lamp oil to the crop.

A forensic psychologist who examined Kinnunen in 2012 for both cases wrote that “Kinnunen currently evidences signs that are consistent with a substantial mental illness and that meet the inpatient criteria of a ‘person requiring treatment.’”

Kinnunen got “more and more” into drugs and “it messed with his head” during their marriage, Angela Holloway, whose divorce from him was finalized in 2011, told the AP.

She said that she doesn’t know whether Kinnunen was ever diagnosed with a mental illness and that she wasn’t sure whether he could legally have guns, but that he consistently did.

“I don’t know how he got them; I just know that he did have them,” she said.

In 2016, Kinnunen was arrested in New Jersey and charged with unlawful possession of a firearm. He eventually pleaded guilty to the lesser crime of criminal trespass, court records show. In Texas, he was charged with aggravated assault in 2008 but pleaded down to misdemeanor deadly conduct.
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#103

Post by philip964 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:14 pm

troglodyte wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:25 pm
https://apnews.com/856bfff9dc582b934ff8f60c7cb3af28

In 2012, a district judge in Oklahoma ruled him mentally incompetent to stand trial and ordered him committed to a psychiatric facility for treatment.

Kinnunen was charged with felony assault and battery with a dangerous weapon after he attacked the owner of a Chickasha, Oklahoma, doughnut shop in 2011, court records state. He was separately charged with arson that year after allegedly starting a fire in a cotton field by tying tampons soaked in lamp oil to the crop.

A forensic psychologist who examined Kinnunen in 2012 for both cases wrote that “Kinnunen currently evidences signs that are consistent with a substantial mental illness and that meet the inpatient criteria of a ‘person requiring treatment.’”

Kinnunen got “more and more” into drugs and “it messed with his head” during their marriage, Angela Holloway, whose divorce from him was finalized in 2011, told the AP.

She said that she doesn’t know whether Kinnunen was ever diagnosed with a mental illness and that she wasn’t sure whether he could legally have guns, but that he consistently did.

“I don’t know how he got them; I just know that he did have them,” she said.

In 2016, Kinnunen was arrested in New Jersey and charged with unlawful possession of a firearm. He eventually pleaded guilty to the lesser crime of criminal trespass, court records show. In Texas, he was charged with aggravated assault in 2008 but pleaded down to misdemeanor deadly conduct.
So he could not legally buy a gun. Where did he get the shotgun? Why was he not in a mental institution for his and the public's good? New Jersey? Oklahoma? Mental illness is generally not something you can be cured of.

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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#104

Post by mojo84 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:17 pm

More evidence laws do not prevent crime.
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Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement

#105

Post by Grayling813 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:27 pm

philip964 wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:14 pm
Why was he not in a mental institution for his and the public's good? New Jersey? Oklahoma? Mental illness is generally not something you can be cured of.
The same progressive do-gooders who want to remove firearms from everyone except the government emptied the insane asylums and made it extremely difficult to lock up those people who are not capable of being in a civil society.
Keep asking the question, “Cui bono?” (For whose benefit?)
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