Let's Really Protect Our Schools

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oljames3
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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#46

Post by oljames3 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:23 am

eureka40 wrote:Do you have to be a school employee (as I am not) to take the Texas School Safety Course?

If not, does anyone have a link to sign up for the course around Austin/Georgetown?

Thanks in advance.
No, you do not have to be a school employee to take the school safety course. KR Training is offering the course. This is the closest that I know about.
KR Training Schedule
https://krtraining.com/schedule.html

KR Training's primary range is about an hour east of Austin. However, the next class KR Training is offering will be in Conroe, on March 12-13. WFAA TV (Dallas) reports only 23 certified instructors in the state for this course. I have seen messages on this forum from instructors offering the course. Prices I have seen range from $400 to $465. Karl Rehn (KR Training) plans to offer another class this spring. Ammo requirements I have seen range from 200 to 300 rounds. I fired 318 in the class I took. This course is a minimum 15 hours. I have only seen it offered as a two-day class. If you don't live near the training facility, factor in travel, lodging, and food expenses. This is an expensive course, but worth the cost.

From KR Training's course description (There is a typo in the description. The Shooting Under Duress shooting exercise developed by DPS is 120 rounds, not 50 rounds.):
In 2013, the Texas Legislature passed SB 1857, entitled “The Texas School Safety Training Act.” This bill established a process by which license to carry (LTC) instructors can provide a state certified training program for school districts and school employees who wish to have employees with LTCs carry handguns on campus.
...
A school employee wishing to get this certification must do more than sit through two days of classes. For example, they must:
* already possess a LTC
* demonstrate proficiency with their handgun with a passing score of 90 percent (compared to the passing score of 70 percent to get your LTC)
* pass two written examinations with a score of 90 percent (compared to the passing score of 70 percent on one written examination to get your LTC)
...
This course content is general enough that it has value to anyone interested in active shooter response, and as a state-certified, state-developed course, the training it provides will be more legally defensible in court than other uncertified courses offered by private sector schools.
I am not a public school employee. I passed the certification course at KR Training last December. This course is applicable to churches and that is the purpose for which I took the course. The first thing we did was shoot the LTC course of fire. All 18 students scored over 90%. If you don't pass the tests, you don't have to leave the class. However, you must pass to get your certificate.

This link is to Karl Rehn's review of the class:
http://blog.krtraining.com/school-safet ... ourse-aar/
Last edited by oljames3 on Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
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surferdaddy
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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#47

Post by surferdaddy » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:53 am

I was on the USS FITZGERALD in the late 90s and did VBSS. I am pretty good with an M4 and Beretta. Me and my Mk25 are ready to help. Sign me up.

Surfer
CHL/LTC instructor
NRA basic pistol/home firearm safety instructor.


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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#48

Post by mrvmax » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:08 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote: If you ever want to learn how to launch a MK48 torpedo and what all goes into torpedo fire control and target tracking and analysis, look me up. Not all "combat" is done on the ground.
Trust me, I'm not trying to denigrate anyone's service. I am simply saying that for the purposes of this thread topic, which is school security, if we want to exempt veterans from training, then we need to make sure those veteran's actually handled a firearm as part of their service. Army = yes. Air Force / Navy = Maybe. I am impressed with anyone's ability to launch a torpedo, and I'm sure it is plenty complicated, but it is not really all that relevant to school protection (unless the shooter happens to be attacking from the bottom of the swimming pool). Same goes for my training on how to calculate fire direction commands for a howitzer. Interesting and possibly also impressive, but not all that relevant.

Personally, I would be in favor of requiring volunteers to have a LTC, at a minimum. Realistically, they probably need a more targeted training that includes things like rules of engagement, coordination between security force members, and skills other than direct engagement of a shooter like how to effectively get exposed students to cover, first aid, etc., etc. I, personally do not think that any type of military service would be completely sufficient on it's own.
Keep in mind that missions and training change over time, when I was in AF EOD we qualified on both handgun and long gun but in combat were more of a support role (I never served in combat but during the first gulf war AF EOD was called in when something was found and they did not go out on patrols). Since then EOD missions have changed and they do patrols and kick in doors like other service members. It would be too tedious to pick out every AFSC/MOS that would be eligible and it would have to be a list that was continually updated as military missions changed over time. What you are suggesting (I am referring specifically to limiting this to Army and Marine Corps) is not practical and it is based on prior experiences that may not be current with today's military.


eureka40
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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#49

Post by eureka40 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:22 am

oljames3 wrote:
eureka40 wrote:Do you have to be a school employee (as I am not) to take the Texas School Safety Course?

If not, does anyone have a link to sign up for the course around Austin/Georgetown?

Thanks in advance.
No, you do not have to be a school employee to take the school safety course. KR Training is offering the course. This is the closest that I know about.
KR Training Schedule
https://krtraining.com/schedule.html

KR Training's primary range is about an hour east of Austin. However, the next class KR Training is offering will be in Conroe, on March 12-13. WFAA TV (Dallas) reports only 23 certified instructors in the state for this course. I have seen messages on this forum from instructors offering the course. Prices I have seen range from $400 to $465. Karl Rehn (KR Training) plans to offer another class this spring. Ammo requirements I have seen range from 200 to 300 rounds. I fired 318 in the class I took. This course is a minimum 15 hours. I have only seen it offered as a two-day class. If you don't live near the training facility, factor in travel, lodging, and food expenses. This is an expensive course, but worth the cost.

From KR Training's course description (There is a typo in the description. The Shooting Under Duress shooting exercise developed by DPS is 120 rounds, not 50 rounds.):
In 2013, the Texas Legislature passed SB 1857, entitled “The Texas School Safety Training Act.” This bill established a process by which license to carry (LTC) instructors can provide a state certified training program for school districts and school employees who wish to have employees with LTCs carry handguns on campus.
...
A school employee wishing to get this certification must do more than sit through two days of classes. For example, they must:
* already possess a LTC
* demonstrate proficiency with their handgun with a passing score of 90 percent (compared to the passing score of 70 percent to get your LTC)
* pass two written examinations with a score of 90 percent (compared to the passing score of 70 percent on one written examination to get your LTC)
...
This course content is general enough that it has value to anyone interested in active shooter response, and as a state-certified, state-developed course, the training it provides will be more legally defensible in court than other uncertified courses offered by private sector schools.
I am not a public school employee. I passed the certification course at KR Training last December. This course is applicable to churches and that is the purpose for which I took the course. The first thing we did was shoot the LTC course of fire. All 18 students scored over 90%. If you don't pass the tests, you don't have to leave the class. However, you must pass to get your certificate.

This link is to Karl Rehn's review of the class:
http://blog.krtraining.com/school-safet ... ourse-aar/
Thank you sir.
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Ruark
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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#50

Post by Ruark » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:35 am

rotor wrote:
clarionite wrote:
rotor wrote:FYI, although I had 8 years of active duty in the USAF I never once had any training in firearms or ever touched a military weapon. The closest I came to weapon training was watching an AR-15 shot at a watermelon. All firearm use that I had was on my own. The concept that military service and firearm training go hand in hand is not correct.
True. I constantly hear people talking about somebody "has had military training," the assumption being that if you've been in the military, you're some kind of battle-scarred Rambo. Far from the truth. That notwithstanding, the idea is rock solid. The trick would be getting around the hoplophobes squealing "we don't need MORE guns in the schools!!!!!"
-Ruark


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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#51

Post by Ruark » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:49 am

Another aspect of this would be the actual job description of the volunteer. Remember, actual active shooters in schools don't happen every day. 99.99% of these guys would spend 99.99% of their time doing... what? Sitting in the front office playing Solitaire on a computer? Standing in the hallway waiting for a maniac to walk through the door?

Also, I'm not sure how reliable "volunteers" would be, if they weren't paid. Would they show up every day? Take the afternoon off for a doctor's appointment?

I'm not being negative here... I think it's a great idea. But I tend to subject things to scrutiny. I know we have volunteers in church, but that's just for an hour on Sunday mornings. What we're talking about here is a totally different matter.

I can see some legal issues pertaining to teachers with this training, as well. Say you're a teacher with a CHL and you got this training, etc. A maniac steps into a classroom down the hall from you and starts slaughtering children with an AR. Will you be REQUIRED to pull out your Glock and go down there, lay your life on the line and face him? Would there be consequences if you didn't? I mean, hey, you signed up for it, you volunteered to "get special training to protect our children." So would you just stand there and let them be slaughtered, or go protect them? You get my drift here...

Again, it's a viable idea; the challenge, as always, would be its implementation.
-Ruark


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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#52

Post by skeathley » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:15 pm

From KR Training's course description (There is a typo in the description. The Shooting Under Duress shooting exercise developed by DPS is 120 rounds, not 50 rounds.):
Actually, it is 140 rounds, plus 50 for the Proficiency. At least, it was in Sep.

:tiphat:
Texas LTC Instructor / RSO / SSC
Viet Nam Veteran: 25th Infantry, Cu Chi
https://mckinneyfirearmstraining.com


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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#53

Post by Mike S » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:29 pm

Ruark wrote:Another aspect of this would be the actual job description of the volunteer. Remember, actual active shooters in schools don't happen every day. 99.99% of these guys would spend 99.99% of their time doing... what? Sitting in the front office playing Solitaire on a computer? Standing in the hallway waiting for a maniac to walk through the door?

Also, I'm not sure how reliable "volunteers" would be, if they weren't paid. Would they show up every day? Take the afternoon off for a doctor's appointment?

I'm not being negative here... I think it's a great idea. But I tend to subject things to scrutiny. I know we have volunteers in church, but that's just for an hour on Sunday mornings. What we're talking about here is a totally different matter.

I can see some legal issues pertaining to teachers with this training, as well. Say you're a teacher with a CHL and you got this training, etc. A maniac steps into a classroom down the hall from you and starts slaughtering children with an AR. Will you be REQUIRED to pull out your Glock and go down there, lay your life on the line and face him? Would there be consequences if you didn't? I mean, hey, you signed up for it, you volunteered to "get special training to protect our children." So would you just stand there and let them be slaughtered, or go protect them? You get my drift here...

Again, it's a viable idea; the challenge, as always, would be its implementation.
The SSC curriculum doesn't espouse the teachers as being assaulters searching/clearing the school. Rather it teaches the Avoid/Deny/Defend methodology created by ALERRT. The Avoid is to get the students away from the threat if a viable exit exists; the Deny is techniques to delay or prevent the threat from entering a barricaded room; the Defend is techniques to use whatever weapon is available, be it a firearm or weapons of opportunity to engage the threat, with an eye on mitigating risk to non-threats/innocent third parties. So, under these circumstances unless the defender acted recklessly I wouldn't imagine any greater liability that anyone else.

Under this methodology, if the coach in Florida had his handgun (or anyone else who would have been legally armed & came into contact with the wack job), the outcome may have been drastically different.

Now regarding the issue of inconsistent participation, that would be a scheduling issue that perhaps the School Resource Officer could wrangle.

Regarding Charles' proposed legislation, I'm thinking it could include a Subsection regarding liability, recklessness, negligence, & no public duty for teachers & volunteers.

ETA: Not that I think there's anything wrong with the way the current Texas statutes are written; they are already pretty comprehensive in my mind regarding liability as long as you're not provoking/reckless/negligence/etc.


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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#54

Post by locke_n_load » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:10 pm

Charles, I have copied and pasted this message, unedited, onto my facebook business page (LTC/Firearms training), and given citation that it is from published from texasfirearmscoalition.com. Is that acceptable?
"They that would give up Essential Liberty, for a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"

EDC - Glock 26 Gen IV
CHL Holder since 10/08

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bigtek
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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#55

Post by bigtek » Sun Feb 18, 2018 3:38 pm

That will be addressed in the bill. As I said earlier, politics and personal opinions will not be elevated above protecting schools/kids.
Someone is finally going to beat Strauss in an election?

:thewave
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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#56

Post by Ruark » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:42 pm

I have to say..... I'm just so appalled that this country has come to the point where we're even HAVING this discussion.
-Ruark

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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#57

Post by RoyGBiv » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:10 pm

bigtek wrote:
That will be addressed in the bill. As I said earlier, politics and personal opinions will not be elevated above protecting schools/kids.
Someone is finally going to beat Strauss in an election?

:thewave
Sounds like you missed this....

Texas House Speaker Joe Straus says he will not seek re-election
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek

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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#58

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:47 pm

eureka40 wrote:Do you have to be a school employee (as I am not) to take the Texas School Safety Course?

If not, does anyone have a link to sign up for the course around Austin/Georgetown?

Thanks in advance.
As already noted, you do not have to be a school employee. In response to requests, I'm considering offering the class in the Houston area.

Chas.
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eureka40
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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#59

Post by eureka40 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:29 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
eureka40 wrote:Do you have to be a school employee (as I am not) to take the Texas School Safety Course?

If not, does anyone have a link to sign up for the course around Austin/Georgetown?

Thanks in advance.
As already noted, you do not have to be a school employee. In response to requests, I'm considering offering the class in the Houston area.

Chas.
Thank you very much Charles. If you offer the course, I would try to take it from you.
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Re: Let's Really Protect Our Schools

#60

Post by NotRPB » Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:00 am


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