Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

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Crash
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Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#1

Post by Crash » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:55 pm

When wearing a button-front shirt untucked, should the shirt be buttoned or unbuttoned when carrying at the 3:30 - 4:00 position? I've seen an instructor who wears it buttoned then pulls up the back of the shirt with both hands and another instructor who says that the shirt front should be unbuttoned when carrying at that position.

Opinions? Recommendations?

Thanks for your assistance,

Crash

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oljames3
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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#2

Post by oljames3 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:34 pm

Crash wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:55 pm
When wearing a button-front shirt untucked, should the shirt be buttoned or unbuttoned when carrying at the 3:30 - 4:00 position? I've seen an instructor who wears it buttoned then pulls up the back of the shirt with both hands and another instructor who says that the shirt front should be unbuttoned when carrying at that position.

Opinions? Recommendations?

Thanks for your assistance,

Crash
You have to find which carry method works for you. There is no one way that fits all.

I carry openly at 3 o'clock. My son carries his M&P M2.0 Compact 9mm 4.25inch concealed IWB at 3:30-4:00. He sometimes wears a button shirt tucked or untucked. Often wears t-shirts. He wears a motorcycle jacket when riding his Ninja. He has trained and practiced defeating his cover garment with one hand or with two.

Even though I carry openly, I have trained and practiced to defeat cover garments with one hand or two. When wearing a suit, my coat is usually unbuttoned. I will clear and draw with one hand. Sometimes it gets cold in central Texas and my winter jacket is zipped. Two-handed clearing works best.

Unless you always carry the same pistol in the same way and always dress the same, you will have to consider the ways in which your manner of dress affects your draw and train accordingly.

As with most things in life, we must each decide which risks we are willing to manage and which benefits matter most to us.
Last edited by oljames3 on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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oljames3
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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#3

Post by oljames3 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:42 pm

Drawing from a Closed Front Cover Garment - Paul Gomez.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoLz-NIWbOg

Drawing From A Fanny Pack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yku7c0GO58g

Drawing from Appendix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvtdA-KUT-A
O. Lee James, III Captain, US Army (Retired 2012), Honorable Order of St. Barbara
2/19FA, 1st Cavalry Division 73-78; 56FA BDE (Pershing) 78-81
NRA Distinguished Life Member (Disabled Vet), TSRA, NAR L1


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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#4

Post by Crash » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:06 am

oljames3 wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:42 pm
Drawing from a Closed Front Cover Garment - Paul Gomez.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoLz-NIWbOg

Drawing From A Fanny Pack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yku7c0GO58g

Drawing from Appendix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvtdA-KUT-A
oljames3

Thanks for your advice and the youtube videos--really helps a lot. Just the kind of information I needed.

Crash


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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#5

Post by WTR » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:18 am

I just usually wear snap closure shirts. If the situation would demand it, buttons would fly.

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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#6

Post by PriestTheRunner » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:53 am

WTR wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:18 am
If the situation would demand it, buttons would fly.
+1. Buttons pop off real quick with adrenaline rushing. They are actually kinda surprisingly weak...
If you have a snap-button shirt, those are actually harder to rip open than sewn on buttons- but the feel is the same and is very quick.

I had the fortune of testing an (older) shirt at the range that was headed to become rags. I was surprised how easy it was, and that was double stitched.

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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#7

Post by GeekwithaGun » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:11 am

sometimes leave the bottom button undone to make lifting the shirt easier, but have been able to lift shirt and draw when fully buttoned too. practice. unloaded. at home.
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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#8

Post by AndyC » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:09 am

Doesn't matter as long as you can draw reasonably quickly; there isn't any One True Way (tm). There was also a time when some folks were promoting the use of velcro underneath shirt buttons...
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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#9

Post by warnmar10 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:29 am

AndyC wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:09 am
Doesn't matter as long as you can draw reasonably quickly; there isn't any One True Way (tm). There was also a time when some folks were promoting the use of velcro underneath shirt buttons...
My attitude fwiw, if I'm ever in a situation where I decide it is in my interest to brandish, having my pistol on my person saves me a trip to the car to get it. Concealed carry and quick draw are a contradiction in terms. Situational awareness is key.
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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#10

Post by montgomery » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:00 am

Concealed does not mean inaccessible.

Like others have said, there is no one right way.

There is a balance between maintaining concealment and rapid accessibility without being conspicuous.

I personally prefer the open shirt method because I have the option to button if conditions require it to maintain concealment - and it also allows me to quickly and easily shift to open carry by moving the garment behind the grip and holster if pre-threat conditions justify getting ready to draw.

Keep this in mind: you will only have one hand available (one is occupied holding a phone, holding keys, holding back a family member, hand up in face of threat, engaged with threat, or protecting your head from a strike) to draw from concealment MORE OFTEN than having the luxury of two hands available to defeat the concealment garment and draw your firearm to engage a threat.

Hope this helps ... stay safe, be dangerous.


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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#11

Post by Crash » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:01 am

Thanks everybody for all your input. As almost all of you recommend, practice will be the key to an efficient/effective draw, regardless of buttoned, unbuttoned, one-handed draw, or two-handed draw.

Thanks again

Crash


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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#12

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:09 am

AndyC wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:09 am
Doesn't matter as long as you can draw reasonably quickly; there isn't any One True Way (tm). There was also a time when some folks were promoting the use of velcro underneath shirt buttons...
I actually just noticed that one of my still nice dress shirts has a really badly frayed cuff where it contacts my watch. I was going to toss that, but I think I'll practice with it first to see how it feels to rip out the buttons while drawing. Will probably do this while unloaded, though.
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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#13

Post by canvasbck » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:09 pm

IMHO, you have to decide what's important to you.

Leaving the shirt unbuttoned leaves a draw that is SLIGHTLY faster than lifting the shirt. It does take less practice to get comfortable with just sweeping your shirt with your strong hand and you have to practice the two handed technique with the buttoned shirt. OTOH, having the shirt unbuttoned will occasionally lead to the gun being flashed and you will at that point be OCing. To some, concealment is more important to them than ease of access.

There is validity to both points of view, you have to decide whats important to you. Ultimately, this is a relatively minor decision. If one way or the other will make you more comfortable carrying than the other and make it less likely for you to leave it on the nightstand........go that way!
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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#14

Post by bblhd672 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:09 pm

I have several “concealed carry” shirts that fit looser with features like front buttons that are actually snaps and Velcro side seams.
https://www.propper.com/mens/shirts/covert-shirts.html
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Re: Shirt Front Buttoned or Unbuttoned when Carrying at 3:30 - 4:00?

#15

Post by flechero » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:23 pm

I button... I normally wear a button up shirt to nicer places- Church, date night, etc. When working in the yard or out on the ranch, a flapping shirt can get caught up in equipment or just get in the way. I don't buy "fitted" or "slim" cut shirts. I don't seen to have trouble clearing buttoned shirts to draw.

As mentioned, snaps are great and if you wear shirts open, sew a small weight (washer, quarter, small fishing weight) into the seam of the button row on the strong side. And if you wear a suit or sport coat, keep your keys in the strong side pocket- helps your coat or shirt clear better.

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