Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

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xeno_texas
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Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#1

Post by xeno_texas »

Not really self defense in the context this forum would expect, but still a shoot.

I was forced into a defense shoot against my neighbor's dog yesterday. I live on an acre in the county, outside of the city limits. As such, there is a recurrent problem with dogs just being left loose to roam and do whatever they please. I received a notification from USPS that a package had been delivered in my mailbox and was walking to get it. This is the season of thieving, after-all. Yes, I absolutely carry at the house

The scenario. My driveway sits around 60ft from the property line, and I was walking down the opposite side of it, compared to where my neighbors house sits. My neighbor's porch sits about 80-100ft from his property line. This matters because the dog(s) ran between 150-160 feet to get to my position.

I saw them leave their porch and kept a peripheral eye on them. This, in itself, was't a huge concern because although they have been getting more and more aggressive since this particular neighbor moved in about month ago, they usually stop at the property line or just over.. This time they did not. At 30ft, the larger of the two was still at a full run, so I stopped, turned, and drew my pistol. He stopped at the opposite side of the driveway,10 feet away. I brought my pistol up to a high ready and yelled at him to "get." Apparently, this was the command he was waiting for because he lunged forward. I fired twice towards his center mass. He turned, and ran back, just across the property line where he collapsed at full gallop. I remember looking down at my pistol and thinking.. "well this day just went south." I had my phone, so I called the non-emergency line for the Sheriff, told them that I had just had to shoot my neighbor's dog and that I needed an officer. I walked back into the house, cleared/safe and open, then placed my pistol on the counter top.

Some thoughts..

I couldn't believe this was such an emotional event. I wasn't emotional or shaking, but I definitely felt jitters in my chest. "It was just a dog" doesn't quite apply. I am a dog owner and happen to like them. Mine are big 9yo puppies. This was the first time I have shot at a living being, that hasn't been while hunting.

Every good AAR has improves and sustains.

1.(Sustain) Immediately calling the sheriff's office. It is still against the law (Class A Misdemeanor) to seriously injure or kill a domesticated animal/pet in the state of Texas...unless......(insert "it's not an offense" text here). I also discharged a firearm while doing it. Yes, on my private property, but none-the-less.
2. (Improve and Sustain) Initially I did not go to the neighbors house. I went inside and secured my firearm first. I knew this was going to be an emotionally driven event and did not want my firearm introduced into the situation. When I stepped back outside, he had come out and was standing next to the dog. Only then, did I walk next door. He met me at the property line. He asked why and where I had shot. For obvious reasons he had to have assumed I had shot the dog while on his property. He became very visibly angry, upset and emotional. It became quickly apparent my logical answer of "he attacked me on my property, (pointing) way over there" wasn't making it through the cloud of anger. I broke conversation by telling him "I have already called the sheriff, and this is all I am going to say before the deputy gets here. I am going to go back to my place until then"
3. (Improve and Sustain) He followed me across my yard up to the house. He noticed my dogs at the back gate and said "You love your dogs?" and walked towards the gate. This was, in my opinion, a veiled threat so I gave him his warning. " Keep in mind, you are now on my property, they are behind a gate and not a threat to you" I then walked the rest of the way into the house and watched him through the window until he walked back to his property.
4, Sheriff Deputy arrived.. Actually, more than one :cool: . I stepped outside to meet them. The primary deputy asked me briefly what had happened, asked me where my firearm was and for my ID. All pretty much what I expected. He asked me to walk him through the shoot. Where, which direction, how many shots, where was the dog at when I shot, ect... So I went to the spot in the driveway. Showed where my casings landed, pointed to where the dog had been. He noted the impact point from one of my rounds as well as the paw prints on the side of the driveway. Neighbor was outside again, so he asked that I go back up to the house and ensure the pistol was clear, safe and ready for him to inspect/document.. He went to go talk to the neighbor. I am not sure to label this as a sustain or improvement. I would hope, if it were a person, I would know, in that state of mind, what to say or not say before shutting my pie hole and calling my lawyer.

Deputy came back, asked me to fill out the written statement. Told me that it seemed like a legitimate shoot. That I was fine. He said that I had hit him at least once in the head, there was a chest wound that may or may not have been a exit wound, and that the run was probably a reflex/adrenaline response. He told me again that "Don't worry, your good"

It was only at this point that I asked him if he wanted to review the security footage...... "You have security camera footage?.." I knew I was good before he told me.. I just didn't want to show all of my cards at one time..

Pulled up the footage which showed the entire walk up the driveway, the dogs coming from the neighbor's house, the moment the dog lunged and the shoot. It was from a distance away, my house sits 150ft from the road, but it was still clear video. He recorded it on his POV camera and walked back out to meet with the animal services officer.

5. Sustain... VIDEO!!!!! This was a pretty easy situation, but me having video only cemented my story. Now it wasn't just my version versus my neighbor telling the officers that his dogs were sweet boys and would never do such a thing..... That 3rd unblinking eye might save your bacon if the situation was more serious. I have since downloaded it to a file and have it saved. I have since found out the same dog had charged towards my son earlier that morning as he was getting on the bus. I found and saved that video as well.

In the end, the deputy told me to have a good day, the animal services officer had signed off on everything and nothing more was needed. It honestly amazed me that there would be as much "police work" to this as there was with the pictures and statements, ect.....

Like I said above.. Not quite the story most would expect in here, but it gave me some insight. If it was this emotional having to shoot at a dog, imagine how bad it will be if I ever have to do it for real....

I am worried about what this guy will do to my dogs. I won't repeat what the deputy said about his encounter with the neighbor, except he personally witnessed how aggressive the other dog was and that it would not be an impossibility for me to have to call them back out. I know that it is a felony, on top of anything else, if he retaliates, but that doesn't make me feel better. I also know that I have three other exterior cameras (4 total) with audio on certain ones. Crappy way of meeting the new neighbor. :???: :banghead: :grumble

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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#2

Post by jordanmills »

Thanks for sharing.

I was REALLY close to shooting a neighbor's aggressive dog, but on our street and not in my yard (the dog did leave their fenced area, their yard, and come across the street after me). Glad I'm big and loud enough that a hundred pound bull mastiff mix had second thoughts and turned around.
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#3

Post by Deltaboy »

Thanks I killed lots of Dogs when we had Chickens. I killed in pit with my solid brass hame headed cane about 11 years ago. It came after me in a city alley and I hit it in the head.I was lucky :tiphat:
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#4

Post by Jusme »

Great post xeno_texas! Sounds like you did everything correctly, and had your bases covered. Hopefully your neighbor will realize, that he needs to restrain his dogs even in the country. I have never actually had to shoot one, but living in the country, it is quite common to see dogs running loose. Dogs can be taught where their property line ends, but it is up to the owners to do the training.
Any shoot causes, adrenaline rush. So having the jitters afterwards is normal.
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#5

Post by RoyGBiv »

Sorry you had to deal with that xeno.
Hopefully the neighbor won't choose to make things worse.
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#6

Post by striker55 »

I live in a residential neighborhood, 2 doors down the new neighbors have 3 pitbulls. One morning I see them loose running around, I'm a bicycle rider and thought they wouldn't bother me, I'd simply ride off. Nope, as soon as I opened my garage door and walked outside they came running towards me. I always carry when I leave my house, I drew my weapon and put my fat tire bicycle between me and the most aggressive dog. The other two dogs backed off, I aimed and yelled go home. He barked at me for a few seconds and left. I called 911, as soon as the deputy pulled up and got out of his car the dog came back barking at the deputy. He drew his baton and kept the dog back but the dog was standing his ground in my front yard. After the deputy pulled his flashlight and shined it in the dogs face the dog retreated. The deputy asked if I knew the owner was home. Their car was there and the dogs were in the driveway. He drove to their house and while parked in their driveway the dog was at his bumper. Deputy sounded his siren a few times and the owner finally came out and put the dogs inside. I had called animal control and they came out, owner got ticketed by animal control. After everything was calm I talked to the deputy and he said I had the right to shoot the dog on my property. I asked the deputy why he didn't shoot, he said too much paperwork plus he had taken a class just the week before about vicious dogs.

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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

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Post by flechero »

5. Sustain... VIDEO!!!!! This was a pretty easy situation, but me having video only cemented my story. Now it wasn't just my version versus my neighbor telling the officers that his dogs were sweet boys and would never do such a thing..... That 3rd unblinking eye might save your bacon if the situation was more serious. I have since downloaded it to a file and have it saved. I have since found out the same dog had charged towards my son earlier that morning as he was getting on the bus. I found and saved that video as well.
That's great! I'm considering/looking for a video set up currently... do you mind sharing what type of cameras or system you have? SOunds like you had good video from a distance away.

Also, at some point if it becomes appropriate, I'd like to see your video... I'm especially curious as I have come very close to shooting a neighbor's dog. (he cornered my son who was 8 at the time and has gotten aggressive with me on my property.)
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#8

Post by PriestTheRunner »

xeno_texas wrote: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:51 pmstory

Thank you for posting. This is a great lessons learned post, and I'm glad you shared it.

It sucks about the neighbor. Just out of curiosity, did he get to see the casings location, paw prints or the video? It likely wouldn't change his mind or attitude immediately, but might have changed it after a few days of reflection.

Also, I don't think I would have disarmed quite so soon. If the neighbor (who was unknown to you at the time) had become a deadly threat, you would have been up a creek... Though I admire your desire to not introduce a weapon into a emotional situation, the neighbor might not have been so courteous.
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#9

Post by puma guy »

Thanks for sharing and I'm glad you were able to end the threat from the dog. I'm a dog lover and I know from personal experience how difficult it is to take such drastic action when you encounter an aggressive dog. I hope your neighbor is not seeking to avenge his aggressive dogs demise, but he doesn't sound like the coolest head in the 'hood. Does your county not have restrictions on dogs at large? Where I hunt there are signs warning of $500 fines for dogs at large. I'm wondering if animal control told him he should control his dogs. I'm also curious as to the breed of your neighbor's dogs.
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#10

Post by priusron »

I shot a neighbors dog a few years ago in West Sacrament, California. My in laws were on the phone with sheriffs dispatcher when I fired. Hit the dog in the leg. It retreated to their porch. The owner pulled up right after and tried to get in my face. I told her to go tend to her dog. While the sherif was talking to me, at least 8 people walked up or drove by and got out of their cars to shake my hand and thank me. The police were impressed. Returned my firearm and loaded magazine on the spot and said have a good day. Very unusual for California.
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#11

Post by The Annoyed Man »

priusron wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:09 pmVery unusual for California.
[off topic]
Especially unusual for Moscow on the Sacramento River.

Maybe twenty five years ago or more, I knew a guy who was an officer with California’s Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement (the state’s version of DEA). This was when I still lived in SoCal. Both he, and another guy I knew who was an LAPD reserve officer, told me that if they happened to stop and search a vehicle driven by someone who otherwise appeared to be an “upstanding citizen”, and they found a gun in the car, they’d just let it go and tell the person to stay out of trouble with it. It was for lack [abbreviated profanity deleted] a better description, “reverse profiling”, if you will.

That’s unfair. A white guy like me would be able to skate with an unlawfully carried firearm in the car, while someone otherwise like me but with black skin might not skate. But, that was 25 years or more past, and I’m sure today they’d throw me in jail and throw away the key. I escaped SoCal in 2006 and never looked back. Texas is home.
[/off topic]

Anyway, I would hate to have to shoot a dog, but I wouldn’t hesitate to do so if necessary. We have two of the big babies in our house. I love them to pieces. But as much as I love dogs, I put human life over a dog’s life in my order of priorities. If I’m going to be willing to shoot a human if necessary, I’d better be willing to shoot a dog if I need to.
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

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Post by Paladin »

Thanks for the write-up. Animal attacks are the most likely threat we face.
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

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Post by longtooth »

Well written for here and for the SO. Glad you drew some good officers. I know you hope there is no more problem w/ the new neighbor. I do to.
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xeno_texas
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

#14

Post by xeno_texas »

flechero wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:54 am
5. Sustain... VIDEO!!!!! This was a pretty easy situation, but me having video only cemented my story. Now it wasn't just my version versus my neighbor telling the officers that his dogs were sweet boys and would never do such a thing..... That 3rd unblinking eye might save your bacon if the situation was more serious. I have since downloaded it to a file and have it saved. I have since found out the same dog had charged towards my son earlier that morning as he was getting on the bus. I found and saved that video as well.
That's great! I'm considering/looking for a video set up currently... do you mind sharing what type of cameras or system you have? SOunds like you had good video from a distance away.

Also, at some point if it becomes appropriate, I'd like to see your video... I'm especially curious as I have come very close to shooting a neighbor's dog. (he cornered my son who was 8 at the time and has gotten aggressive with me on my property.)
I bought my system from Sams. It is a Samsung 8 camera system with only 4 setup currently. I am intending to complete the rest, but have to figure out logistics of running longer cables.
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Re: Defensive shoot against a dog (personal story)

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Post by xeno_texas »

PriestTheRunner wrote: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:06 am
xeno_texas wrote: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:51 pmstory

Thank you for posting. This is a great lessons learned post, and I'm glad you shared it.

It sucks about the neighbor. Just out of curiosity, did he get to see the casings location, paw prints or the video? It likely wouldn't change his mind or attitude immediately, but might have changed it after a few days of reflection.

Also, I don't think I would have disarmed quite so soon. If the neighbor (who was unknown to you at the time) had become a deadly threat, you would have been up a creek... Though I admire your desire to not introduce a weapon into a emotional situation, the neighbor might not have been so courteous.
To my knowledge, he was not interested in seeing the physical evidence and it is possible the deputy allowed him to view his POV. Not sure if he can do that, or not. I wasn't going to allow him access to the house to view it on the desktop either. As far as sharing it here.. I don't see it being inappropriate except for the size. It is a HD video, so a large file. It was far enough away that there is nothing graphic except seeing the dog collapse and start twitching legs.
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