Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

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Lambda Force
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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#91

Post by Lambda Force » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:33 pm

I wish people would say unlicensed carry if that's what they mean.

The US Consitition says our right to carry weapons "shall not be infringed" which means no license and no prohibited places.
Tyranny is identified by what is legal for government employees but illegal for the citizenry.

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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#92

Post by G.A. Heath » Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:55 pm

Lambda Force wrote:I wish people would say unlicensed carry if that's what they mean.

The US Consitition says our right to carry weapons "shall not be infringed" which means no license and no prohibited places.
I dislike the term Constitutional Carry because it implies that the Constitution gives us this right, I do not agree with that idea. I feel that the right to keep and bear arms predates the Constitution and that the Constitution does NOTHING other than enshrine legal protection for this right. If people we support the concept that Constitutional Carry is a right granted by the constitution then simply amending the Constitution is a just means of ending that right. By acknowledging that the right predates and supercedes the constitution we are making it more difficult to strip this right away from a moral and educational point of view.
I am also a Gun guy, Car Guy, and Computer Guy and a currently former podcaster.


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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#93

Post by nlyric » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:31 am

There is absolutely no reason unlicensed carry can't pass in 2017.. Unless of course the NRA doesn't fully support it... Then it doesn't have much of a chance.

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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#94

Post by G.A. Heath » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:37 am

nlyric wrote:There is absolutely no reason unlicensed carry can't pass in 2017.. Unless of course the NRA doesn't fully support it... Then it doesn't have much of a chance.
This is completely untrue. The reasons unlicensed carry didn't pass all had names. I will share two: Stickland, and Watkins. The actions of a very vocal minority doomed unlicensed carry from the start and almost killed open carry. If we see thw same behaviour again more political capital will be spent trying to prevent or undo damage rather making real progress.
I am also a Gun guy, Car Guy, and Computer Guy and a currently former podcaster.

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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#95

Post by mojo84 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:42 am

This topic is being discussed in another "official" Constitutional Carry thread where all Constitutional Carry and HB 375 discussion is supposed to be carried on. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=86870


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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#96

Post by nlyric » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:06 pm

G.A. Heath wrote:
nlyric wrote:There is absolutely no reason unlicensed carry can't pass in 2017.. Unless of course the NRA doesn't fully support it... Then it doesn't have much of a chance.
This is completely untrue. The reasons unlicensed carry didn't pass all had names. I will share two: Stickland, and Watkins. The actions of a very vocal minority doomed unlicensed carry from the start and almost killed open carry. If we see thw same behaviour again more political capital will be spent trying to prevent or undo damage rather making real progress.
I'm talking about this coming session. I honestly don't care who did what in the past. Or who gets the credit in the future. And I stand by my statement. If the NRA doesn't fully support it, it doesn't have much of a chance.
I want it to be fought for and passed. Can't happen without the fight though. That is a fact.
If it is about who wrote the bill, well I could care less about that too. I've read it, not perfect, but it looks pretty good IMO

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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#97

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:29 pm

nlyric wrote:There is absolutely no reason unlicensed carry can't pass in 2017.. Unless of course the NRA doesn't fully support it... Then it doesn't have much of a chance.
Is it your position that unlicensed carry will pass if the NRA supports it? If so, please give us the basis for that opinion.

Chas.
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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#98

Post by KC5AV » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:51 pm

nlyric wrote:
G.A. Heath wrote:
nlyric wrote:There is absolutely no reason unlicensed carry can't pass in 2017.. Unless of course the NRA doesn't fully support it... Then it doesn't have much of a chance.
This is completely untrue. The reasons unlicensed carry didn't pass all had names. I will share two: Stickland, and Watkins. The actions of a very vocal minority doomed unlicensed carry from the start and almost killed open carry. If we see thw same behaviour again more political capital will be spent trying to prevent or undo damage rather making real progress.
I'm talking about this coming session. I honestly don't care who did what in the past. Or who gets the credit in the future. And I stand by my statement. If the NRA doesn't fully support it, it doesn't have much of a chance.
I want it to be fought for and passed. Can't happen without the fight though. That is a fact.
If it is about who wrote the bill, well I could care less about that too. I've read it, not perfect, but it looks pretty good IMO
I've highlighted the problem with your position. The same people who were responsible for it in the past will be involved this time around. Odds are very good that they will pull the same stunts they pulled last session, with the same results. Then, they will blame 'lobbyists' and the NRA when their pet legislation doesn't pass.
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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#99

Post by nlyric » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:29 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
nlyric wrote:There is absolutely no reason unlicensed carry can't pass in 2017.. Unless of course the NRA doesn't fully support it... Then it doesn't have much of a chance.
Is it your position that unlicensed carry will pass if the NRA supports it? If so, please give us the basis for that opinion.

Chas.
Charles, I thought I had responded already but guess I neglected to hit submit.
I certainly can not say it "will" pass. But I do believe if the NRA fully supports it, it has a very good chance. And like I've said none if they don't....
Reasons that support that have been already stated by some. Republican platform, control, and a governor who would surely sign it.
Would rather see the goal out weigh the glory and discourse for a change.

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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#100

Post by bblhd672 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:54 pm

nlyric wrote: Charles, I thought I had responded already but guess I neglected to hit submit.
I certainly can not say it "will" pass. But I do believe if the NRA fully supports it, it has a very good chance. And like I've said none if they don't....
Reasons that support that have been already stated by some. Republican platform, control, and a governor who would surely sign it.
Would rather see the goal out weigh the glory and discourse for a change.
You are assuming that all of the Republicans in Austin have the same degree of interest in expanding gun rights as we do.

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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#101

Post by Jusme » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:57 pm

bblhd672 wrote:
nlyric wrote: Charles, I thought I had responded already but guess I neglected to hit submit.
I certainly can not say it "will" pass. But I do believe if the NRA fully supports it, it has a very good chance. And like I've said none if they don't....
Reasons that support that have been already stated by some. Republican platform, control, and a governor who would surely sign it.
Would rather see the goal out weigh the glory and discourse for a change.
You are assuming that all of the Republicans in Austin have the same degree of interest in expanding gun rights as we do.

Exactly, you must understand, that even conservative representatives, have a segment of their constituents who are not conservative, or at least not as conservative as we may like. Their positions are tenuous, and they will have a lot more on their plates, besides expanding the rights of LTC holders.
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#102

Post by nlyric » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:27 pm

bblhd672 wrote:
nlyric wrote: Charles, I thought I had responded already but guess I neglected to hit submit.
I certainly can not say it "will" pass. But I do believe if the NRA fully supports it, it has a very good chance. And like I've said none if they don't....
Reasons that support that have been already stated by some. Republican platform, control, and a governor who would surely sign it.
Would rather see the goal out weigh the glory and discourse for a change.
You are assuming that all of the Republicans in Austin have the same degree of interest in expanding gun rights as we do.
Would rather take a positive stand and at least get in the ring. As opposed to throwing in the towel because the politically schooled are predicting there is no way we can win. And like it or not that is also an assumption. No better example then the election we just had.
And in this case they are claiming support for unlicenced carry BUT we lost already. And there is some sort of an issue with who wrote the bill. And some sort of issue with who tried to take credit for past bills. Makes one seriously wonder if there isn't some sort of an issue with who gets credit for the bill should it pass.... Sorry folks it sure has that look.

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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#103

Post by Jusme » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:39 pm

nlyric wrote:
bblhd672 wrote:
nlyric wrote: Charles, I thought I had responded already but guess I neglected to hit submit.
I certainly can not say it "will" pass. But I do believe if the NRA fully supports it, it has a very good chance. And like I've said none if they don't....
Reasons that support that have been already stated by some. Republican platform, control, and a governor who would surely sign it.
Would rather see the goal out weigh the glory and discourse for a change.
You are assuming that all of the Republicans in Austin have the same degree of interest in expanding gun rights as we do.
Would rather take a positive stand and at least get in the ring. As opposed to throwing in the towel because the politically schooled are predicting there is no way we can win. And like it or not that is also an assumption. No better example then the election we just had.
And in this case they are claiming support for unlicenced carry BUT we lost already. And there is some sort of an issue with who wrote the bill. And some sort of issue with who tried to take credit for past bills. Makes one seriously wonder if there isn't some sort of an issue with who gets credit for the bill should it pass.... Sorry folks it sure has that look.

You are more than welcome to push your representatives as much as you feel necessary to get this passed. Neither, the members, nor even the moderators of this forum make laws. We are simply expressing our opinions regarding our experiences with the legislature. All of my representatives are Republican, I have had conversations both in person and on-line with them, and they have given very valid reasons for why they think "unrestricted' carry won't pass.
Just getting prohibited locations for LTC holders will be very difficult. I doubt that the NRA opposes unrestricted carry, but without a large contingent of legislators, backing the bill, even their input won't sway that many.
There is no one here opposing the legislation, I simply feel that trying to push this down the throats of legislators, immediately following open carry and campus carry, that the resistance will be too strong. If you are successful in getting your representatives to either sponsor or write their own bill to this effect, I will support it and encourage my representatives to do the same. But I am not optimistic. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:

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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#104

Post by mojo84 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:24 pm

I can tell you, I met with my rep, his chief of staff and one of his legislative affairs staffers and they all three said they get the impression there is zero appetite to pursue MAJOR new legislation in the area of guns and 2nd Amendment, most especially unlicensed carry. They indicate some minor cleanup and clarifying legislation may have a shot but nothing major.

That's just one rep but it appears they've been testing the water on this issue.


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Re: Political Capital-Prohibited Places vs Constitutional Carry

#105

Post by nlyric » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:33 pm

Jusme wrote:
nlyric wrote:
bblhd672 wrote:
nlyric wrote: Charles, I thought I had responded already but guess I neglected to hit submit.
I certainly can not say it "will" pass. But I do believe if the NRA fully supports it, it has a very good chance. And like I've said none if they don't....
Reasons that support that have been already stated by some. Republican platform, control, and a governor who would surely sign it.
Would rather see the goal out weigh the glory and discourse for a change.
You are assuming that all of the Republicans in Austin have the same degree of interest in expanding gun rights as we do.
Would rather take a positive stand and at least get in the ring. As opposed to throwing in the towel because the politically schooled are predicting there is no way we can win. And like it or not that is also an assumption. No better example then the election we just had.
And in this case they are claiming support for unlicenced carry BUT we lost already. And there is some sort of an issue with who wrote the bill. And some sort of issue with who tried to take credit for past bills. Makes one seriously wonder if there isn't some sort of an issue with who gets credit for the bill should it pass.... Sorry folks it sure has that look.

You are more than welcome to push your representatives as much as you feel necessary to get this passed. Neither, the members, nor even the moderators of this forum make laws. We are simply expressing our opinions regarding our experiences with the legislature. All of my representatives are Republican, I have had conversations both in person and on-line with them, and they have given very valid reasons for why they think "unrestricted' carry won't pass.
Just getting prohibited locations for LTC holders will be very difficult. I doubt that the NRA opposes unrestricted carry, but without a large contingent of legislators, backing the bill, even their input won't sway that many.
There is no one here opposing the legislation, I simply feel that trying to push this down the throats of legislators, immediately following open carry and campus carry, that the resistance will be too strong. If you are successful in getting your representatives to either sponsor or write their own bill to this effect, I will support it and encourage my representatives to do the same. But I am not optimistic. JMHO
Not real familiar with this forums features. Can't find a like button. But I certainly appreciate your post. Guess, whatever the climate is in Austin now will certainly be different between now and close of session. Guess what I'm asking for is a united front for the sake of the same goal at least this early in the game. Changes happen sometimes on a daily and hourly bases during session from what I can tell. Unlike at a federal level, pressure can be a lot easier and effective. We will see. Just can't agree with tapping out on this even before the games begin.

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