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Soccerdad1995 wrote:It's an interesting thought experiment if nothing else. To me, there are two fundamental questions that would impact the feasibility of a secession.

1. How would the federal government react?

2. What other states / counties, etc., would join Texas? Would all of Texas secede, or just a portion?

On #1, it would be a tad bit hypocritical if the federal government tried to stop secession by force. It might be hard to reconcile this with the U.S. government's position on the right to self government by other countries (Ukraine is an example) that were once part of another country. In a perfect world, the federal government would respect the wishes of the people living in an area, who vote for secession. They would then negotiate reasonable trade agreements, and agreements for immigration, transport, etc. Texas has it's own power grid, so we may not need to negotiate much in the way of power sales, depending on the answer to #2, of course.

If the federal government is likely to respond with military force, like the last time this came up, then I personally think it isn't worth the effort.

#2 could impact our need / positioning for trade agreements with other nations, and possibly military needs as well.

Assuming friendly relations with the U.S., I think an independent Texas could potentially thrive. We would lure businesses from the U.S. with lower taxes, and an educated work force. We also have a strong enough military to protect Texas. Probably not strong enough to get overly involved in foreign wars, though. There would be turmoil during the transition, but long term it might just work OK.

Sometimes you don't have to do it, just make the other side believe you'll do it and then negotiate from there!

This has suddenly become a very hot topic apparently:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... cceed.html

Bitter Clinger wrote:This has suddenly become a very hot topic apparently:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... cceed.html

Fascinating read! Thanks for posting Bitter Clinger!

Even Governor Abbott asked people's opinion via a facebook poll.

Darn, didn't see that. I would have liked to vote.

Bitter Clinger wrote:This has suddenly become a very hot topic apparently:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... cceed.html

Fascinating read, but flawed, at least in this respect. We would not be trading tyrants 3,000 miles away for those in Austin. If Texas is so unique, so "conservative," we would be sending to Austin, presumably, those who are like most of us. With a few exceptions, our Congressmen reflect us, our legislators do as well. They are elected by us, after all.

RossA wrote:Darn, didn't see that. I would have liked to vote.

Here you go.

Tracker wrote:

joe817 wrote:

Tracker wrote:I'd like to see a serious threat to secede to rein in the Federal Gov, Oklahoma is more conservative than Texas. Every county in OK voted republican in last two elections.

The richest countries in the US are Silicon Valley and around DC. Power and money flows to Washington.

I'd like to see the 17th Amendment recended. Senators original purpose was to act as lobbyists for the state governments. Now senators are being lobbied to and can thumb their nose at the state legislatures. The 17th undermined states' influence at the Federal level

Not quite I can agree to that but wow! What an interesting sidebar to the topic! I agree that California has a higher GNP than Texas, but not Maryland, or D.C. for that matter. Texas comes in at # 2 behind California in GNP. Next is New York.

BUT, want to look at something really interesting in terms of States GNP as compared to other countries GNP? This is REALLY interesting!....

Texas' GNP is on par with the entire country of Spain. California's GNP is on par with the entire country of Italy. New York....Mexico. Louisiana on par with Israel. Fascinating:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... n_2012.jpg

Oh yeah. On the wealthier counties, DC. http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomvanriper ... 15c3115120

In light of this, I would highly recommend everyone listen to this.

Listen to Money And Politics - Peter Schweizer by Hillsdale College #np on #SoundCloud

crazy2medic wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:It's an interesting thought experiment if nothing else. To me, there are two fundamental questions that would impact the feasibility of a secession.

1. How would the federal government react?

2. What other states / counties, etc., would join Texas? Would all of Texas secede, or just a portion?

On #1, it would be a tad bit hypocritical if the federal government tried to stop secession by force. It might be hard to reconcile this with the U.S. government's position on the right to self government by other countries (Ukraine is an example) that were once part of another country. In a perfect world, the federal government would respect the wishes of the people living in an area, who vote for secession. They would then negotiate reasonable trade agreements, and agreements for immigration, transport, etc. Texas has it's own power grid, so we may not need to negotiate much in the way of power sales, depending on the answer to #2, of course.

If the federal government is likely to respond with military force, like the last time this came up, then I personally think it isn't worth the effort.

#2 could impact our need / positioning for trade agreements with other nations, and possibly military needs as well.

Assuming friendly relations with the U.S., I think an independent Texas could potentially thrive. We would lure businesses from the U.S. with lower taxes, and an educated work force. We also have a strong enough military to protect Texas. Probably not strong enough to get overly involved in foreign wars, though. There would be turmoil during the transition, but long term it might just work OK.

Sometimes you don't have to do it, just make the other side believe you'll do it and then negotiate from there!

For #1: I think the gov't would let us go in its current form. They lose the resources of TX, but they have those in other places. On the other hand, if TX is gone, there will be liberals/progressives in power indefinitely. It's a win for northeastern folk to have TX gone. The fight would come from non-Texan conservatives--many of which would be sympathetic to our cause.

#2: We would have to limit who was allowed in view of #1. We do not need another state's debt, lack of industry, etc. If too may people tried to jump, there would be more blow-back.

I'm afraid the only secession we could ever see is a hearts and minds secession like TAM mentioned, and at that only by a discreet, timid minority. An informal, unannounced secession remaining outwardly obedient to a suzerain Federal government, if I'm using the term correctly. Hopefully in such circumstances hollow allegiance to the Federal government would be balanced by unshakable true faith and defense, by the people at large, of what the federal government betrayed.

But, unfortunately, secession is unthinkable.

America's present utter unwillingness to consider secession in a pleasant light lets the Feds know they can do anything, absolutely anything, and only a minority would refuse to cooperate. In terrible extreme some sick few would always support tyranny and most of those opposed would say secession is axiomatically unthinkable.

To me that raises a red flag. This country was created with the violent overthrow of Britain's self-perceieved lawful government. Should our federal government be more at liberty to abuse authority than King George?

If talk of secession is crazy, if secession can only be avoided by taboo, then the country is lost and secession is the remaining salvation.

Say that secession is unthinkable, guarantee its inevitability.

In the present context the government could start gunning down citizens at the old North Bridge at high noon and calm, reasoned intellectual reaction on conservative talk radio would be secession is unthinkable. In fact, I believe there was much of that kind of talk in 1776. Fortunately, it didn't prevail.

Let Obama and whoever follows him scramble to end this silly talk of the necessity to dissolve political bands. Let Washington work to prove it is worthy to caretake freedom. If that could come to pass, wouldn't that be a good thing? Isn't it possible that the putative insanity of secession might be the only possible damper on federal excess?

i don't want secession, but I think I might like a government mindful not to test the prospect.

The challenge is to find Jeffersons and Washingtons to champion the cause, and to keep the tin foil hats out.

Texas secede? I'm all for it, particularly if we could also secede from Austin. Better than that, I would prefer for talk of secession to be made moot by a healed and repaired federal government, bound by the chains of the Constitution.

But it's just dreams. Secession is unthinkable.

treadlightly wrote:I'm afraid the only secession we could ever see is a hearts and minds secession like TAM mentioned, and at that only by a discreet, timid minority. An informal, unannounced secession remaining outwardly obedient to a suzerain Federal government, if I'm using the term correctly. Hopefully in such circumstances hollow allegiance to the Federal government would be balanced by unshakable true faith and defense, by the people at large, of what the federal government betrayed.

But, unfortunately, secession is unthinkable.

America's present utter unwillingness to consider secession in a pleasant light lets the Feds know they can do anything, absolutely anything, and only a minority would refuse to cooperate. In terrible extreme some sick few would always support tyranny and most of those opposed would say secession is axiomatically unthinkable.

To me that raises a red flag. This country was created with the violent overthrow of Britain's self-perceieved lawful government. Should our federal government be more at liberty to abuse authority than King George?

If talk of secession is crazy, if secession can only be avoided by taboo, then the country is lost and secession is the remaining salvation.

Say that secession is unthinkable, guarantee its inevitability.

In the present context the government could start gunning down citizens at the old North Bridge at high noon and calm, reasoned intellectual reaction on conservative talk radio would be secession is unthinkable. In fact, I believe there was much of that kind of talk in 1776. Fortunately, it didn't prevail.

Let Obama and whoever follows him scramble to end this silly talk of the necessity to dissolve political bands. Let Washington work to prove it is worthy to caretake freedom. If that could come to pass, wouldn't that be a good thing? Isn't it possible that the putative insanity of secession might be the only possible damper on federal excess?

i don't want secession, but I think I might like a government mindful not to test the prospect.

The challenge is to find Jeffersons and Washingtons to champion the cause, and to keep the tin foil hats out.

Texas secede? I'm all for it, particularly if we could also secede from Austin. Better than that, I would prefer for talk of secession to be made moot by a healed and repaired federal government, bound by the chains of the Constitution.

But it's just dreams. Secession is unthinkable.

To paraphrase some folks who were much smarter than myself -

The U.S. government was formed by the people to secure the inalienable rights of those people. The government only exists, and those in power only have their jobs, at the pleasure of the people. If the people decide that the government has become destructive of the rights that it was meant to preserve, then the people have the right to overthrow and replace it with another form of government.

Radical ideas indeed.

There are many, many things different now than in 1776. It took a small, but extremely vocal and extremely committed minority years to nurture the idea in their fellows. Most of this group just happened to be wealthy and powerful, and they enjoyed certain benefits as a result (a fair hearing in the press, reasonably good Classical educations, and some forbearance from the Crown due to their positions not being the least of these). We are now an indoctrinated rather than an educated society; practically all those in power are the very people we'd want to secede from; and the Press is simply an extension of the Progressive element to destroy Western society and consolidate wealth. Derisive, ad hominem attacks on every thing/person/idea that doesn't toe the Party line rather than civilized debate and dialog are proof that our society is well down the road to collapse because The People are no longer capable of the critical thinking and conscientiousness needed to sustain it. I think that it will take more than a handful of Jeffersons and Washingtons to not only fan the flames of Liberty but also build and stoke the bonfire at this point. The People are in large part fat, happy and stupid (please note that I am not casting aspersions on any of the members here, but rather referring to too many of our fellow citizens) and both poorly disposed toward and ill-suited for a spirited contest for Liberty.

It can't happen..................SOON ENOUGH! Don't Mess with Texas!

LSUTiger wrote:It can't happen..................SOON ENOUGH! Don't Mess with Texas!

Amen, brother!